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Shoes that say "Hand Made" or "Fatte A Mano"

The Shoe Snob

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Because what happens in the shoe industry is important to me and I feel like a lot of slandering has occurred that truly affects certain sectors of the industry, I feel the need to ask this question to see what people's thoughts are these days. I know a lot of you guys like to make jokes instead of actually answering people's questions, but hopefully this one time you can give a straight answer.

Question:

When purchasing a shoe that says 'Hand Made' or 'Fatte A Mano,' you think:

1. These shoes were made by hand or

2. These shoes had certain parts of the shoemaking process that were done by hand or

3. This is just a gimmick to sell the shoes

Thanks to all those who answer honestly

-Justin
 

ljrcustom

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Originally Posted by Handmadeshoes
Because what happens in the shoe industry is important to me and I feel like a lot of slandering has occurred that truly affects certain sectors of the industry, I feel the need to ask this question to see what people's thoughts are these days. I know a lot of you guys like to make jokes instead of actually answering people's questions, but hopefully this one time you can give a straight answer.

Question:

When purchasing a shoe that says 'Hand Made' or 'Fatte A Mano,' you think:

1. These shoes were made by hand or

2. These shoes had certain parts of the shoemaking process that were done by hand or

3. This is just a gimmick to sell the shoes

Thanks to all those who answer honestly

-Justin


It a depends on the brand, and how familiar I am with it.

-LR
 

pebblegrain

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Unless you pull every stitch on the shoe with a needle by hand, you are sitting in that same gray area with everyone else.
 

Cary Grant

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For me, and often depending on price, the answer is often #2... realizing that that could literally be very minimal and not true handwork.

Pick stitching is handwork on many suits... does it reflect the quality? Not really.
 

SpallaCamiccia

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Originally Posted by Cary Grant
For me, and often depending on price, the answer is often #2... realizing that that could literally be very minimal and not true handwork.

Pick stitching is handwork on many suits... does it reflect the quality? Not really.


Agree, same on cars, does affect performance a hand made Aston Martin V12 engine, nope but it gives you some selfconfidence, it happens to me while I wear my sartoriale garments.
 

bananananana

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I'd say #3, but not really a gimmick, but just building up perceived quality. It's no different than like made in Italy or different heritage/premium/black label/limited editions/etc... that brands come out with.
 

chasingred

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I always assume #2. The idea that they were fully made by hand in the most strictest definition would mean that every single aspect of the shoe was made by hand (laces, leather, welts). I suppose if you took the idea to the extreme, handmade would have to assume the tools themselves were also handmade. Since that can't be the case, we're always in a grey zone, so I assume it's #2, which in part also means that I think it's #3.
 

Master-Classter

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I assume that it was probably in part hand assembled, by machine made parts, or that hands guided the shoes through machines... but never that they were actually made (like stitched for example) by hand.

For some reason, hand made elements on a suit mean more to me then with shoes.
 

The Shoe Snob

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I appreciate those who have replied thus far. I assume that you are the intelligent bunch as most of you said #2, which is actually the correct answer for respectable makers and #3 for makers that claim this and then sell their product retail for $200-$300. The only time it is #1 is when a shoe is bespoke and even then, I can tell you that not all makers do every step by hand.

I ask this because during my time selling shoes retail, there were so many people (customers and fellow salesmen) that actually believed it when a shoe claimed that it was "hand-made," which just appalled me. It appalled me even worse when my fellow salesmen then sold shoes based on that false knowledge leading regular people to believe this nonsense. I can tell you this, not only because I have made shoes myself by hand but also from being in factories in which the company that owned the factory claimed that some entire line of their product was made by hand and the only thing hand done about it was the finish (polishing of the shoe) and the fact that someone was at each machine to guide it through.

If you really think about it, it does not make much sense, monetarily, to do much hand work in a shoe that retails under $1500. Your profit margins start to become pretty low and to a company that is trying to maximize profit (which is all of them - bespoke makers being some of the only honest one's left), it just doesn't make any sense. Companies that claim hand-welted on RTW to me are nonsense, because while even the fastest bespoke maker can do it in maybe 1.5-2 hours/pair, most average makers will take 2-3 hours/pair. If you have a machine that can do it in 30 seconds/pair, then what is your incentive to do it by hand??

I don't mean to be a dream shatter-er or anything but it has become a real problem in the shoe industry that companies just throw this term, 'hand-made', around like it's nothing and naive people believe it. For respectable shoemakers who actually make their shoes by hand, the term then becomes less important and less significant and one can no longer make a piece of art, sell it a justified price and make a living. People now expect artists to recreate the Sistine chapel for $100. Art is dying and it's a shame.
 

ralphwho

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Originally Posted by Handmadeshoes
I appreciate those who have replied thus far. I assume that you are the intelligent bunch as most of you said #2, which is actually the correct answer for respectable makers and #3 for makers that claim this and then sell their product retail for $200-$300. The only time it is #1 is when a shoe is bespoke and even then, I can tell you that not all makers do every step by hand.

I ask this because during my time selling shoes retail, there were so many people (customers and fellow salesmen) that actually believed it when a shoe claimed that it was "hand-made," which just appalled me. It appalled me even worse when my fellow salesmen then sold shoes based on that false knowledge leading regular people to believe this nonsense. I can tell you this, not only because I have made shoes myself by hand but also from being in factories in which the company that owned the factory claimed that some entire line of their product was made by hand and the only thing hand done about it was the finish (polishing of the shoe) and the fact that someone was at each machine to guide it through.

If you really think about it, it does not make much sense, monetarily, to do much hand work in a shoe that retails under $1500. Your profit margins start to become pretty low and to a company that is trying to maximize profit (which is all of them - bespoke makers being some of the only honest one's left), it just doesn't make any sense. Companies that claim hand-welted on RTW to me are nonsense, because while even the fastest bespoke maker can do it in maybe 1.5-2 hours/pair, most average makers will take 2-3 hours/pair. If you have a machine that can do it in 30 seconds/pair, then what is your incentive to do it by hand??

I don't mean to be a dream shatter-er or anything but it has become a real problem in the shoe industry that companies just throw this term, 'hand-made', around like it's nothing and naive people believe it. For respectable shoemakers who actually make their shoes by hand, the term then becomes less important and less significant and one can no longer make a piece of art, sell it a justified price and make a living. People now expect artists to recreate the Sistine chapel for $100. Art is dying and it's a shame.


so let me get this straight: in your mind you already knew the answer to the question you asked; but still asked it in seemingly good faith, going so far as pleading for no BS answers, and then you turn around and say: well done guys you passed, it is number 2 and proceed to tell people what they knew already

well done boyo- yes bespoke guys like you are the real deal
lol8[1].gif


Just because some looser spent 3 weeks doing my shoes does not mean they are any better than well made shoes partially using mechanised processes in a quality company
 

bananananana

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Originally Posted by ralphwho
so let me get this straight: in your mind you already knew the answer to the question you asked; but still asked it in seemingly good faith, going so far as pleading for no BS answers, and then you turn around and say: well done guys you passed, it is number 2 and proceed to tell people what they knew already

well done boyo- yes bespoke guys like you are the real deal
lol8[1].gif


Just because some looser spent 3 weeks doing my shoes does not mean they are any better than well made shoes partially using mechanised processes in a quality company


+1

laugh.gif
at the OP
 

well-kept

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He asked the question to determine people's perceptions, which is a perfectly fine thing to do. No sarcasm is merited, I think.

The shoes I own which are in fact essentially handmade - Lobb St. James, old Cleverleys made by George Cleverley's hands, etc - do not label themselves as being 'handmade' because the owner knows them to be such. Even gray areas - Edward Green - assume the client knows what he is buying. The word "handmade" signals something aspirational and feels a bit suspect.
 

The Shoe Snob

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Originally Posted by ralphwho
so let me get this straight: in your mind you already knew the answer to the question you asked; but still asked it in seemingly good faith, going so far as pleading for no BS answers, and then you turn around and say: well done guys you passed, it is number 2 and proceed to tell people what they knew already well done boyo- yes bespoke guys like you are the real deal
lol8[1].gif
Just because some looser spent 3 weeks doing my shoes does not mean they are any better than well made shoes partially using mechanised processes in a quality company

I don't even know why you respond to anything. After reading most of your threads you are just on here to talk **** and nothing more and the fact that you stated that a rubber sole shoe could never be dressy (on a different post) just rules you out for pretty much everything. Now to just respond to your nonsense, if you read the original post carefully I never posed it as a question (hence my name 'handmadeshoes') that I needed an answer to but more to understand what other people think when they see these bold lies. I am no 'real deal' bespoke maker either nor do i claim to be. I have made shoes, yes, but whether I have or not, I still hate to see false things written on shoes which then deteriorates the credibility of others. I wrote this because I actually care about what people think when they spend their money on shoes, you can believe that if you want or not, I really don't give a ****. I still thank everyone for answering honestly except bananarama or whatever who gave you a +1. Not every thread is a question.....if you read thoroughly you would have seen that mine wasn't a question for me, but a question for all of you....
 

The Shoe Snob

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Originally Posted by well-kept
He asked the question to determine people's perceptions, which is a perfectly fine thing to do. No sarcasm is merited, I think.

The shoes I own which are in fact essentially handmade - Lobb St. James, old Cleverleys made by George Cleverley's hands, etc - do not label themselves as being 'handmade' because the owner knows them to be such. Even gray areas - Edward Green - assume the client knows what he is buying. The word "handmade" signals something aspirational and feels a bit suspect.


Thank you well-kept, an intelligent person who can actually read unlike ralphwho. Well put answer. Of course, bespoke stuff from JL is definitely going to be handmade and I never thought about it before you stated it, that true handmade shoes never label it as such. Thanks for the input.
 

ralphwho

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sad world when people who cant spell grey have aspirations not to be aspirational by telling us they own Lobb St James and Cleverley made by cleverley.

You must be part of that famous group of idiots called the "discerning few"
 

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