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Shoes: C&J or Carmina?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Mac, Jan 28, 2011.

  1. upnorth

    upnorth Senior member

    Messages:
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    Armoury did not charge VAT. They are based in HK. VAT is the responsibility of the buyer when he pays duties. I was simply pointing out the irony that a product goes around the world and only to come back close to home once again and yes, i am taking a shot at Carminas poor distribution within EU.
     
  2. Xiaogou

    Xiaogou Senior member

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    Sep 2, 2008
    and yes, i am taking a shot at Carminas poor distribution within EU.

    I second this. Since the Armoury has an account with Carmina, there is no reason why Carmina cannot ship directly to Mac.

    Oh no! Maybe Carmina is really made in C#1N^.

    [​IMG] j/k
     
  3. TKDKid

    TKDKid Senior member

    Messages:
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    Feb 1, 2004
    Location:
    London, UK
    I was charged £77 for VAT. In the UK it has just gone up to 20%"”which means The Armoury must have said they're worth £385, when they're only worth £307. Then I've got handling fees etc that all add up.

    The thing is, I'm a 12 and I don't believe The Armoury stock any size larger than that. So if they don't fit and I do return them, I'll be out about £150 including postage and fees.

    Exactly, how they can recharge for VAT is beyond me, but that's the way it is. [​IMG] Unless The Armoury claim VAT back because they're not in the EU. I'm going to query that.


    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/customs/tax-and-duty.htm

    In particular:

    I got hit by import duty, VAT and handling fees when I bought a pair of Stuart's Choice / Grenson Masterpieces from a member here. I had to get in touch with HMRC and send them proof that the shoes were made in England. I managed to claim back the import duty, which then reduced the amount subject to VAT* and so claimed a little bit of that back as well.

    The really annoying thing was that the customs declaration form on the package clearly stated that the shoes were made in England, so I shouldn't have been charged import duty in the first place. Not sure how Parcel Force could justify the handling fees if they couldn't even handle my package correctly. [​IMG]

    * As per my last quote, it turns out that import VAT is applied to the sum of the value of the goods, postage, insurance and import duty...! [​IMG] This may explain why your VAT figure was so high.
     
  4. Mac

    Mac Senior member

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    Dec 13, 2010
    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    TKD, did your package come from outside the EU? I sent HMRC an email earlier saying:
    Hopefully I'll be able to claim back the majority of the money and get these shoes over to me! TKD, thank you for pointing all of this out. [​IMG] Would you advise me to pay the fee then try to reclaim it, or wait until it's adjusted first?
     
  5. TKDKid

    TKDKid Senior member

    Messages:
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    Feb 1, 2004
    Location:
    London, UK
    TKD, did your package come from outside the EU?

    I sent HMRC an email earlier saying:



    Hopefully I'll be able to claim back the majority of the money and get these shoes over to me!

    TKD, thank you for pointing all of this out. [​IMG] Would you advise me to pay the fee then try to reclaim it, or wait until it's adjusted first?


    Yeah, the package came from the US, hence me being able to claim back the import duty but not the import VAT. I suspect the same will apply to you, unfortunately.

    In my case, I decided to pay the fee first just to get my hands on the package and see what the customs declaration form said. After all, HMRC would've been well within their rights to charge me if they couldn't tell that the shoes were made in the EU. (This was before I found out about how import VAT worked.)

    To make my claim, I had to send HMRC:

    - the original customs declaration form on the package;
    - the original customs/postal charges form that I received;
    - a copy of my order transaction with the sender; and
    - evidence that the shoes were made in England (I sent photos of the shoes and shoe box).

    Obviously you'll need your package to provide some of the above.

    Good luck! [​IMG]
     
  6. Odd I/O

    Odd I/O Senior member

    Messages:
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    Aug 17, 2009
    ^^ Best if I take a pic ... give me some time.

    Currently I have the Lowndes and Prestwood and since they are reasonably different shoes styling wise, its difficult for me to say if they are identical or not. But if they are not identical, they are very close.


    aj_del, how does the 348 compare with the 358 in regards to width? Another member mentioned that the 358 was identical to the 348 only a little wider. The extra width would be advantageous to me.
     
  7. Toiletduck

    Toiletduck Senior member

    Messages:
    2,547
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006
    Hi guys,

    Here's some input from HK - and also for duties in general.

    I'm sorry to say that most of the import duties and VAT issues are out of our control. One thing to note is that Import duties and VAT (value added tax) are two completely different things

    1) Import duties should always be levied upon import of the said good into the UK, unless the country has had a bilateral agreement with country of origin on lower/0% tax.

    There are some exceptions DEPENDING on country e.g. used and personal items, gifts, commercial samples etc. Looks like from TKDkid & your experience, the UK gov't is quite strict. Best way to find out the exceptions is to call your local customs authority and find out what is exempted.

    In your case, the best case to get money back would be to emphasize shoes are "MADE IN SPAIN" - This may help. I am not brushed up on the duty regulations in Europe, but I believe EU + UK have an agreement for free duty.

    disclaimer: bilateral agreements concerning duty sometimes are nullified if goods go through a third country

    2) VAT will always be charged by the UK gov't if you are the end consumer. Only if the gov't misses it.

    Hope the above helps. I'm really sorry it has not been a good experience with your shoes

    Alan from the Armoury
     
  8. Toiletduck

    Toiletduck Senior member

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    Mar 12, 2006
    Also on the subject of shipping straight out from Carmina -

    We do not hold stock at Carmina, nor do they hold stock of shoes at their headquarters. It seems they run a pretty light operations and can only ship out from their retail stores if available there. Also, if you have been to their stores in Spain, which they would have more communications with, it seems that they have limited runs of more unique styles + lasts which are somewhat different to us.

    We will try to talk to them to see what other possibilities there are to help cater to the UK & EU market in the future!
     
  9. Toiletduck

    Toiletduck Senior member

    Messages:
    2,547
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2006

    Oh no! Maybe Carmina is really made in C#1N^.

    [​IMG] j/k


    Haven't seen great quality shoes out of China. There have been quite a lot of Chinese makers ordering from these big brands trying to copy - but it has mostly been copies of style only. They don't have the right machines and expertise ...yet... especially in the shoe-making arena. Hopefully they'll be able to do good quality shoes soon!

    Wouldn't mind seeing some quality shoes made in China in order to also see some quality hit the market at affordable prices!

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Mac

    Mac Senior member

    Messages:
    412
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Hi guys,

    Here's some input from HK - and also for duties in general.

    I'm sorry to say that most of the import duties and VAT issues are out of our control. One thing to note is that Import duties and VAT (value added tax) are two completely different things

    1) Import duties should always be levied upon import of the said good into the UK, unless the country has had a bilateral agreement with country of origin on lower/0% tax.

    There are some exceptions DEPENDING on country e.g. used and personal items, gifts, commercial samples etc. Looks like from TKDkid & your experience, the UK gov't is quite strict. Best way to find out the exceptions is to call your local customs authority and find out what is exempted.

    In your case, the best case to get money back would be to emphasize shoes are "MADE IN SPAIN" - This may help. I am not brushed up on the duty regulations in Europe, but I believe EU + UK have an agreement for free duty.

    disclaimer: bilateral agreements concerning duty sometimes are nullified if goods go through a third country

    2) VAT will always be charged by the UK gov't if you are the end consumer. Only if the gov't misses it.

    Hope the above helps. I'm really sorry it has not been a good experience with your shoes

    Alan from the Armoury


    Thanks Alan.

    I sent them an email yesterday but am still awaiting a reply. All goods shipped throughout the EU (including Spain and UK) are subject to no VAT. I hope I can get at least some of my money back.

    By the way, do you stock 12.5UK in shoes"”incase these are a little tight?
     
  11. pabloj

    pabloj Senior member

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    Jan 15, 2007
    Location:
    EU
    My C&J have aged much better than my Carmina, if this matters to you.
    Carmina's leather and finishing is nicer IMHO (I'm comparing Carmina to C&J benchgrade).
     
  12. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Both my pairs were tight at first, especially the NSTs but after a few minutes they started to loosen.
     
  13. Mac

    Mac Senior member

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    Location:
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    Both my pairs were tight at first, especially the NSTs but after a few minutes they started to loosen.

    NSTs?
     
  14. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Norwegian Split Toes. Those were the tightest of the two but fit beautifully after one wear.
     
  15. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Wore these again today:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Toiletduck

    Toiletduck Senior member

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    Mar 12, 2006
    Thanks Alan.

    I sent them an email yesterday but am still awaiting a reply. All goods shipped throughout the EU (including Spain and UK) are subject to no VAT. I hope I can get at least some of my money back.

    By the way, do you stock 12.5UK in shoes"”incase these are a little tight?


    Unfortunately - largest we go right now are 12. Lets hope 12 are ok!
     
  17. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Hey I'm between 12.5-13 and the 12's fit me perfectly with room to spare. They should work fine unless he's a wide 13 or something.
     
  18. wetnose

    wetnose Senior member

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    Mark...Lifegear tradingpost of Japan stocks a Carmina austerity brogue in the Alcudia last. Do you think you can make it part of your lineup?
     
  19. forex

    forex Senior member

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    6,595
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    Wore these again today:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    These look promising,I'd like them in black though.
     
  20. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    Somehow I can't seem to capture leather with a camera in all of it's beauty. Even the pics I posted of the unboxing were sub-par in relation to how nice these are IRL. I guess one has to get a pair to really find out.

    Also, regarding the loose heel issue I posted earlier, I found if I pulled the laces tight, the heel slip went away.
     

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