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Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

Schweino

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I see different methods of attaching rubber outsoles to midsoles in GYW shoes: Mostly they are glued to the midsole and then the midsole end rubber outsole are both stitched to the welt. I also see some makers where the rubber outsole is just glued to the midsole, in this case just the midsole is stitched to the welt.

Which is the better/most durable method? When a resole of the outsole is needed, is it always needed to also replace the midsole because the cork need to be replaced also? Or will just replacing the outsole be sufficient?

I can imagine that if the latter is the case, glueing a rubber outsole to a GYW midsole is the most durable because you only have to replace the glued outsole when it's worn without having to rewelt te entire shoe.

Would like to hear your thoughts

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JustPullHarder

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I see different methods of attaching rubber outsoles to midsoles in GYW shoes: Mostly they are glued to the midsole and then the midsole end rubber outsole are both stitched to the welt. I also see some makers where the rubber outsole is just glued to the midsole, in this case just the midsole is stitched to the welt.

Which is the better/most durable method? When a resole of the outsole is needed, is it always needed to also replace the midsole because the cork need to be replaced also? Or will just replacing the outsole be sufficient?

I can imagine that if the latter is the case, glueing a rubber outsole to a GYW midsole is the most durable because you only have to replace the glued outsole when it's worn without having to rewelt te entire shoe.

Would like to hear your thoughts

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There's also the case where only the toe is stitched (Vass). In my view, the stitching helps with areas such as the toe that are likely to get bumped which might cause the rubber to separate.
 

DWFII

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I don't know what purpose would be achieved by stitching a midsole and outsole to the welt. At that point the midsole is superfluous. Maybe for show or expectation.

If the midsole and rubber outsole are prepared correctly (cleaned and primed) cementing a rubber outsole to a midsole that has been stitched to the welt is sufficient. A lot of work shoe/boots are done this way. And as you said it makes resoing a little easier.

All that said, GYW is not a Traditional technique. xD
 

JFWR

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I don't know what purpose would be achieved by stitching a midsole and outsole to the welt. At that point the midsole is superfluous. Maybe for show or expectation.

If the midsole and rubber outsole are prepared correctly (cleaned and primed) cementing a rubber outsole to a midsole that has been stitched to the welt is sufficient. A lot of work shoe/boots are done this way. And as you said it makes resoing a little easier.

All that said, GYW is not a Traditional technique. xD

I can't believe I just saw a 70 year old retired boot maker use an anime emoticon.

That's very xD
 

DWFII

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I can't believe I just saw a 70 year old retired boot maker use an anime emoticon.

That's very xD
75-1/2...and I play Kingdom Come: Deliverance. It is used pretty often over on the Steam forum. I did not know it was anime.
 
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Schweino

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There's also the case where only the toe is stitched (Vass). In my view, the stitching helps with areas such as the toe that are likely to get bumped which might cause the rubber to separate.
That's interesting. Is the midsole fully stitched and the toe of the (rubber) outsole stitched again then? So basically double stitched at the toes?
 

Nebbiolo

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I have a question regarding shoes like these where the toe sinks directly into the sole, with almost no gap between upper and welt. Is that only achievable with handwelting?
 

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DWFII

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I have a question regarding shoes like these where the toe sinks directly into the sole, with almost no gap between upper and welt. Is that only achievable with handwelting?

"Almost" is the operative word. Whether it is Goodyear or handwelted there will always be some "gap" under the toe. (You would almost have to be a shoemaker to understand why.)

But if the last is shaped correctly and the insole prepared correctly, I believe the gap can be better mitigated with a handwelted shoe than a GYWshoe.
 

j ingevaldsson

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I have a question regarding shoes like these where the toe sinks directly into the sole, with almost no gap between upper and welt. Is that only achievable with handwelting?

The type of welting is one thing, but then other steps also matter. If you shape the insole by hand, last by hand, welt by hand and hammer by hand all these parts give you a better way to achieve a tight gap (as DWF says, always some, but tight). If you do one or a couple of these you can get closer to it, but when as most factory made shoes you don't do any of it the gap will be much larger.
 

Nebbiolo

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"Almost" is the operative word. Whether it is Goodyear or handwelted there will always be some "gap" under the toe. (You would almost have to be a shoemaker to understand why.)

But if the last is shaped correctly and the insole prepared correctly, I believe the gap can be better mitigated with a handwelted shoe than a GYWshoe.
What exactly goes into it, besides the last and insoles being shaped correctly?
 

rab

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Where the awl comes out in relation to the feather line can influence what the transition between upper and welt look like.
 

ntempleman

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Goodyear welt gemming typically sits 1/4 inch inside the edge of the insole, so the seam will sit deeper underneath the upper. When handwelting you can choose where you cut the holdfast, you could even come out the edge of the insole and welt to that for the minimum gap possible.

There’s reasons you might choose a further in or further out holdfast, the further out you go then the less welt leather you have to stitch to (at least if you want to cut the welt close, which is typically preferred for formal shoes)
 

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