Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

[WhyUEarly]

So we were having a discussion on the Vass thread about whether the heel stacks are real leather or leatherboard. We lack the expertise to really know.

Does this look like leather heel stacks?

 

[j ingevaldsson]

So we were having a discussion on the Vass thread about whether the heel stacks are real leather or leatherboard. We lack the expertise to really know.

Does this look like leather heel stacks?
View attachment 1424559

To me, looks like leather stacks, and looks like the heels are built on the shoes with a combination of machine and hand rasped/sanded. Also how I’d picture them doing it. I could be wrong though.

 

[DWFII]

Black pair are leather.

On the brown pair the finish of the heel is so opaque (like a paint) that it's not really possible to tell from a photo.

FWIW, when looking at the breast of the heel on commercially made heel stacks, the layer next to the outsole has often been 'cut' through--so that the layer appears to disappear over the waist. Sometimes, depending on the heel height two layers may be cut through.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Black pair are leather.

On the brown pair the finish of the heel is so opaque (like a paint) that it's not really possible to tell from a photo.

FWIW, when looking at the breast of the heel on commercially made heel stacks, the layer next to the outsole has often been 'cut' through--so that the layer appears to disappear over the waist. Sometimes, depending on the heel height two layers may be cut through.

If you swipe on the brown shoe there’s another pic of the breast.

Yeah, true.

 

[WhyUEarly]

Thank you @j ingevaldsson and @DWFII I always thought Vass used leather stacks for the heel. Our discussion started because Steve from Bedos found paperboard on the pair of Vass he was resoling in this video

 

[taxgenius]

Thank you @j ingevaldsson and @DWFII I always thought Vass used leather stacks for the heel. Our discussion started because Steve from Bedos found paperboard on the pair of Vass he was resoling in this video

I loved the video. Thanks.

 

[DWFII]

If you swipe on the brown shoe there’s another pic of the breast.

Yeah, true.

Didn't see that. OK, I'd guess the brown pair is leather as well but like it or not, makers (of commercial heel blocks) can be verra clever. I wouldn't be surprised to be surprised.

And FWIW, the brwon pair do look more like a commercial stack than the black pair do--again you can see how the first lift has been ground off in the center.

 

[DWFII]

Thank you @j ingevaldsson and @DWFII I always thought Vass used leather stacks for the heel. Our discussion started because Steve from Bedos found paperboard on the pair of Vass he was resoling in this video

What's the time where he encounters the paperboard?

 

[ajd578]

What's the time where he encounters the paperboard?

1:30

 

[DWFII]

1:30

Thanks.

OK, now I wonder. The cobbler is dead right...not good. Nor is only three nails to hold the base on.

Well, that's the thing about manufacturers--I've been saying it for years right here...when it's more about making money than making shoes (and the bottom line drives these choices as sure as day turns to night), anything goes and ultimately, the product ends up masquerading as something (quality)that it is demonstrably not. Pretense is deceit.

 

[j ingevaldsson]

Thank you @j ingevaldsson and @DWFII I always thought Vass used leather stacks for the heel. Our discussion started because Steve from Bedos found paperboard on the pair of Vass he was resoling in this video

Ok, yeah seem like they’ve been switching to cheaper heels lately then, that’s a real shame. Was many years ago since I had Vass shoes, but all those pairs for sure had leather heels (except if rubber soled, then they did a quite ****** full rubber heel). Saw mentioned in the Vass thread that they have become a bit cheaper later as well, guess they’ve done decision to cut some corners to be able to compete a bit more with price. Wonder about stiffeners now then, should be full leather still but perhaps can have started with celastic toe puffs as well (though that’s just completely speculation, just another common way also for makers of hand welted shoes to reduce costs).

 

[shoesforever]

Reminds me of an article I read from a former student of the Norwegian bespokemaker JP.Myhre. She used to work as a cobbler during the first years of her practice, but quickly got really disillusioned by all the paperboard she saw in nowadays rtw shoes and really questioned whether they were worth repairing. Made her quit her job as a cobbler to only make bespoke shoes for the people who wanted bespoke shoes for their Norwegian traditional clothes, bunad. Basing her shoes of of museum shoes rather than what we normally see for glued rtw traditional shoes.

 

[shoesforever]

Norwegian traditional slippers. The one with the strap is what people normally wear and the others are examples of handwelted slippers that people used to wear. Not sure what I think about the styling, but the buckled ones remind me a lot of the shoes @DWFII wears with his kilts. Do you know more about the history of those kind of shoes in Europe, DW? My understanding is that farmers from Germany, Scandinavia and Great Britain wore more or less the same style of shoes?

 

[DWFII]

Norwegian traditional slippers. The one with the strap is what people normally wear and the others are examples of handwelted slippers that people used to wear. Not sure what I think about the styling, but the buckled ones remind me a lot of the shoes @DWFII wears with his kilts. Do you know more about the history of those kind of shoes in Europe, DW? My understanding is that farmers from Germany, Scandinavia and Great Britain wore more or less the same style of shoes?

Well, I'm not sure of Europe in general but in England and the States buckle shoes (not monks) were pretty much the style from the mid18th through the early 19th century. The shoes I wear with my kilts are an 'interpretation' of shoes circa early 1800's but everyone wore them...with trews, with britches, etc..Women in particular wore buckled shoes. And when the lachets wore out on the leather shoes, they'd cut the straps/billets short, punch holes and lace them up--kind of like a modern two eyelet derby.

That said, for kilt wearers buckle shoes remain fashionable esp. for formal events although the shoes are more like slippers and the buckle more ornamental than functional.

An interesting side note is that the old ditty--"one, two, buckle my shoe..." comes from that time period and is essentially a mnemonic tutorial on how to buckle a shoe using an 18th century lachet buckle.

 

[DWFII]

Ok, yeah seem like they’ve been switching to cheaper heels lately then, that’s a real shame...but perhaps can have started with celastic toe puffs as well (though that’s just completely speculation, just another common way also for makers of hand welted shoes to reduce costs).

It's true of every commercial operation. Even ones that purport to be handwelted. If you're competing in the marketplace where your competition is other commercial operations, the bottom line rules. The slide is near-as-nevermind inevitable. One of the best and most highly regarded RTW companies is now offering cement sole construction. And touting and selling it at premium prices.

I suspect that a lot of makers...high end makers...that once used leather toe stiffs, that built their customer base and their reputation using leather toe stiffs, have switched to celastic. It's much, much faster and cheaper than leather