Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by DWFII, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I am not sure what he was referring to there either but I do try to be careful in the words I choose and the way I string them together.

    Of course, I'm not anywhere close to perfect in that regard but I do stand by what I said. Including my assertion that I don't care whether it is inegalitarian or not.

    As testudo aubreii mentioned...or implied...whether something is egalitarian or not is not any better a determiner of quality than patina. Look at my sig--it says it all. Quality and the search for excellence is not subject to political correctness. I don' t have much truck with such woo-woo (IMO) considerations.

    On the other hand I don't see how your "interpretation" follows my remark. You want to see it as a dismissing of personal preferences, priorities etc. But on the face of it, and in context, it is really, and always has been, about objective quality. Period. Nothing else.

    It is what it is.

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016


  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    and just a quick follow-up...for clarity's sake...

    I post here because it is my thread. I don't own it but I started it and it is imbued with my spirit and it is where i hang out...mostly.

    I can't speak to the motivations of Nick or chogal but considering the dearth of substance (in my professional opinion) that they bring to the discussion, I can understand your suspicions. They have even been urged (by several folks) to start their own threads where they won't have to contend with me or any objective, professional shoemaker's opinion.

    But for some reason they apparently prefer the role of gadfly.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016


  3. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    As @Whirling would say, that's surface not substance!
     


  4. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    @j-mac Are those firm "specializations" still in place in the modern world after the consolidation to a few big guys? And how has the consolidation of West End firm impact the life of outworkers?
     


  5. shoefan

    shoefan Senior member

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    Egalitarianism refers to attitudes about people, not things. So, I am not using the term in reference to nor in the context of comparing products, defining the quality thereof, or any other such matters. Here is what I mean by Egalitarianism: [def] a political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals from birth. I find DW's statement (note: that statement, I am not extending it to DW's general attitudes, personal beliefs, or anything else) anti egalitarian, as I find it dismissive of people's self-awareness and motivation; I find it condescending.

    Well, I disagree (obviously) -- not saying that was your intention, just that is a reasonable interpretation. Oh well, people both misspeak and misinterpret all the time. Sorry if I did the latter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016


  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    You're right I am un-egalitarian--about people, about attitudes, about things...proud of it.

    "And without the recognition that there is a hierarchy of excellence in all things, nothing rises above the level of mundane."

    "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" - Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980)

    Words to live by...at least for me

    PS ....I agree everyone is born equal and should be given the benefit of the doubt, if nothing else. But things change rapidly after that...mostly by choice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016


  7. j-mac

    j-mac Member

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    The West End has always had a number of ' bigger' firms , although they are still relatively small businesses What has changed is the number of individual makers who have set up on their own so they can make to their own style and preference.
    For outworkers things stay much the same,the specialization is now more by individual workers, you may have an outworker who is especially good at making riding boots or light ladies work and they will make for various shops to the spec that shop likes.
     


  8. j-mac

    j-mac Member

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    Sorry a bit new to this posting thing,my last comment was a reply to Chogall's question about the West End.I thought I had linked it :)
     


  9. VRaivio

    VRaivio Senior member

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  10. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Curious...at the metmuseum link the refer to the shoes as "leather, wood, and (sic) synthetic."

    What is the synthetic? Do you know?
     


  11. ntempleman

    ntempleman Senior member

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    1/4 rubber heel piece?
     


  12. mw313

    mw313 Senior member

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    Do you mind saying who this person is who can do what you listed above?
     


  13. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I might have thought the laces, but then, also the loafers (allegedly) contain synthetic.



    Here is an unusual loafer design, sporting a heel strap, made more than forty years ago by
    Anthony Cleverley for his great patron Alexis Baron de Redé, :

    [​IMG]

    And here is a modern re-interpretation made a couple of years ago by George Cleverley (the firm) in London for Jun Kuwana:


    http://cobblersweb.style.coocan.jp/cleverley27/cleverley27.html
     


  14. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Not at all.

    Al Saguto. At CWF. He's the only American "certified" master shoemaker in the US...AFAIK.
     


  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I suppose.
     


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