Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by DWFII, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. ntempleman

    ntempleman Senior member

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    It looks as though the sock leather has been stretched to maximise yield, and once it's absorbed your perspiration it has shrunk back to its natural size
     


  2. skeen7908

    skeen7908 Senior member

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    The cream material is definitely NOT leather

    It feels like a fabric of some kind: it feels slightly rough. I want to say it feels like canvas

    These are also brand new, so it's not a shrinkage issue

    It just looks as if the "sock liner" is cut too small and doesn't cover whatever the layer is underneath

    Sorry it's hard to explain with just photos, and further compounded by my ignorance

    These are supposedly handmade but are rustic in style (not from a proper bespoke dress shoe maker), not intended to be refined
    I just want to know if this will deteriorate or if there are longevity issues
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016


  3. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It may feel rough but at highest magnification, I see no warp or weft. Short of actually seeing the shoes in person I still have to suspect it is leather.

    If the black of the lining is a finish coat (and it almost certainly is) and has been abraded to accept the cement, or even if it was particularly vulnerable to the solvents in the cement, it will feel rough.

    If the sockliner is is a sockliner what does that say about what is underneath it? The cream does not look like an insole at all. It is not the "right" colour. Nor does it have and visible substance (thickness). If the cream is an insole it is a p-poor one.

    As far as handmade is concerned...the nails in the heelseat were driven by a machine, I can almost guarantee that.
     


  4. skeen7908

    skeen7908 Senior member

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    Interesting!

    Here is a better zoomed in photo

    [​IMG]

    I think you can see some type of warp/weft?

    I do believe however that these were "object dyed"

    That is, dyed after the entire shoe was constructed (literally dipped in a bucket of dye laces and all)

    So it is conceivable that this is some non leather material that does not accept the dye?
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016


  5. ntempleman

    ntempleman Senior member

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    Well it looks rustic alright
     


  6. ntempleman

    ntempleman Senior member

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    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016


  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Better photo but almost certainly not canvas. See the way in which the black of the lining "melds" into the "cream"? At highest magnification you can almost see the hair follicle pits in the both the black and the cream. And those black striations are typical of finish that has not been entirely removed. Although I suppose they could also be "seepage" but more likely from the flesh side.

    Perhaps it was dyed after the fact. But more likely with a brush. If it had been dip dyed, one would expect that the edge of the sockliner /insole would also be black...which doesn't appear to be the case at highest resolution. Also the threads would be black. And the "edge" / margin between the cream and the black would be less distinct (although there doesn't seem to be any real "disconnect" or edge at all between the black and the cream--suggesting it is all one piece). Beyond that, if the cream were canvas the black dye would have wicked extensively and that edge would have been even less sharp--the canvas would have accepted the dye much,much more readily than the leather. And if it were dip-dyed or even dyed after the fact it certainly is an indication that something has moved / shrunk / been stretched beyond the original position.

    Regardless (and short of actually inspecting the shoe in person most of this is admittedly at least in the realm of conjecture) it's not a good sign.If nothing else it suggests that things are not as they have been represented. But if the shoes fit you...and I suspect there's not a lot of options with regard to returning them...then just forget about it. It is what it is. The shoes probably...probably, no guarantees...won't explode underfoot.

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016


  8. shoefan

    shoefan Senior member

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    I like your sense of humor! (or is it humour?)
     


  9. ntempleman

    ntempleman Senior member

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    Depends which version of English you adhere to; the one that you guys modified, or the one that we routinely butcher.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016


  10. shoefan

    shoefan Senior member

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    In our case, those two are not mutually exclusive!
     


  11. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Or, these days far more likely, which version of English your spell-checker adheres to.

    Whenever I type "labor", "humor", "honor", the thing screams in pain until I change it to "labour", "humour", "honour".
     


  12. OzzyJones

    OzzyJones Senior member

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    Quite right too, but try getting it to accept 'advice' without it changing to advise
     


  13. mw313

    mw313 Senior member

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    I'm thinking the same as you in this too. I just don't know what those indents / nails are by the heel. It just seems off and just by looking at the overall materials it does not seem hand made either.

    Who is the maker for these shoes? @skeen
     


  14. mw313

    mw313 Senior member

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    It is still rough to tell but does the maker/company do medical or orthopedic shoes? Is that yellow stuff pretty firm too?

    It could be a plastizote or type of foam used in that industry of shoemaking for support. It also can more of an accommodative filler to add cushioning if it is soft. The problem with those orthopedic materials is that they need to be replaced or refurbished much sooner than using just leather or cork with leather.

    I commonly use them with orthotics for certain foot types and activity levels.

    If that is the case, you can just have that sock liner removed and have a new one cut to cover the inside. Then you can just be prepared to check out the show every once in a while to have it repaired if that material breaks down too quickly for you.

    With regular use, those materials usually only last a couple years at most because they will rub/break down
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2016


  15. mw313

    mw313 Senior member

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    I wish we could just all get along and standardize it. I really hate the autocorrect from Advise to advice too
     


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