Well, I do read everything with an open mind. There are a good number of contributors on this thread, so I don't regard any one person's words as absolute gospel. But DW has definitely made a lot of sense with everything that he has said so far. I also appreciate the fact that what he says is based on more than 40 years of experience. In my trade, experience and practice trumps ANYTHING that one can ever learn from a book. So do I tend to give him more credit than another contributor who isn't a shoemaker? Yes, I do. But again, I do try to read anything with an open, objective (or at least as objective as I can) mind. That being said, what I was referring to, was the most recent debate on whether welt pricking (either by stitch prick or fudge wheel) indeed had the effect of tightening the individual stitches. All the parties involved brought up valid, logical points, points that I would not have thought of as a lay person. And I was merely stating that I appreciated the exchange of ideas and opinions, it made for an interesting and educational discussion. Do I still think the stitch prick would do a "better job" than a fudge wheel? Yes. Do I think that the fudge wheel can still do a decent job since we are in the "realm of aesthetics"? Yes. Because it still is logical to me, that, a fudge wheel with a fixed radius would be more likely to be "out of sync" with the welt stitches than a stitch prick applied to individual stitches. I also do appreciate that extra bit of hand work. St Crispin still uses the stitch prick by the way.