Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by DWFII, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    jajaja, Its always good to learn new things.

    It is an "outsole" then from Norman Vilalta.

    Thanks DW.
     
  2. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    What kind of cement/glue is used to adhere sock liners to the insole? Need to get myself some of those...
     
  3. ntempleman

    ntempleman Senior member

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    Rubber solution.

    [​IMG]

    Other brands are available.
     
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I use a 2cm swath of all purpose or acrylic contact cement at the forepart end of any heel pad or partial sockliner and a 3 or 4 cm swath of Hirschkleber down the center to the back edge. I seldom use full sockliners but if I did i would use Hirschkleber all the way.
     
  5. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Thank you. Is the technical name for these "rubber solutions"?

    Can't find a good site that sells these on this side of the pond, Algeos US sells little to none shoemaking/repairing stuff compare to its UK counterparts.

    Do you think this works as a substitute?
    http://sorrellnotionsandfindings.customboots.net/product/aquilim-gl-rubber-cement-substitute/
    [​IMG]


    Thank you for the recommendations! It's quarter length sock liner but came loose after wearing. Just trying to find the best adhesive for me to properly secure it. And best if the same adhesive could also be used to attach toe plates (metal, leather or rubber) or my future cobbling excursions.

    Acrylic contact cement sounds like something I could get easily at Home Depot or Michaels.

    The enterprising Lisa Sorrel sells Hirschkleber on her store. phewwww.
     
  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Such cements are not called "rubber solutions" this side of the pond. It's too confusing simply because industry recognizes a "Rubber Cement" that is a temporary contact adhesive and "All Purpose" cement which is a neoprene based contact cement and is permanent. I may be wrong but I think the Renia fits into the latter category.

    Both are occlusive and will prevent perspiration from being wicked away from the foot.

    Both are high in VOC's and are toxic...even sickening, depending on the formulation.

    Both the Aqualim GL and the Aqualim 315 (which I would prefer in this situation) are acrylic based contact cements. (I use both...judiciously...I have even used 315 to mount outsoles, it is a good alternative to All Purpose)

    They, also, would be occlusive but release no toxic fumes...no VOC's.

    Hirschkleber is not occlusive and is not toxic...and probably wouldn't hold quite as well in high stress areas as the contact cements.
     
  7. ntempleman

    ntempleman Senior member

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    That's right, it's essentially just rubber that's been rendered liquid in a solvent. There's various tales of craftsmen of yore, troubled by the difficulty of securing the stuff in wartime, simply dissolving some old bits of tyre in a bucket of petrol - not that I'm suggesting anyone do that now.

    The tin I posted of Renia "Gummisolung" is one of these rubber solutions, it's useful stuff. Everyone uses it in the west end at every stage because it only holds things together for as long as you want them to be together, as soon as you tug at it the bond will yield without any damage to either material. Closers use it a lot to hold leather in place before sewing, makers secure felt filler before stitching the sole etc etc. ridiculously toxic of course, but all the good things in life are.

    It's good for socks because you can easily remove and replace when worn out, or just when you need a few attempts to get it in the right place eg a through sock on a long boot and any excess is easily removed without trace from smooth leather surfaces once it's dry. its also water resistant so it won't re activate on contact with water like a craft paste such as Hirschkleber can. It's fairly breathable in the scheme of things, certainly gas permeable. Probably less so that leather is, but I'm not certain why it needs to be.

    Another brand we have over here is Gripso, but Renia stuff must be available - ask your local cobbler, he's probably got a few barrels of the stuff.
     
  8. Medwed

    Medwed Senior member

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    I wonder if anyone knows of shoemakers who make shoes out of belting aka pull up leather? I have a pair of sandals and flipflops made of this leather and I just love it. (tried searching for the answer to no avail)...
     
  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    As an experiment...if you don't believe that "rubber solutions" are occlusive...take a scrap piece of insole shoulder and carefully paint rubber cement on all six faces. Let it dry thoroughly and then drop into a bucket of water. See how long (days?) it takes for it to get wet...if it ever does.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  10. Numbernine

    Numbernine Senior member

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    Too many to list you need to be more specific
     
  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    ChromeXcel is a pull-up leather.
     
  12. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Anyone tried to revive Celastic to give it a new shape? With heat, acetone, or whatever magical solutions?

    EDIT: not sure if this is the right thread but this is probably the most shoe geek thread alongside with leather properties...
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  13. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Good luck with that.

    I'm not sure heat will help...acetone would work but it will also destroy the finish on your shoes.

    As for magical solutions--"magical thinking" is what brought celastic into being in the first place--it's either the only solution or a compounding of the problem.

    Beyond those observations...it's not really a "Traditional" (see thread title) material, and as a result, I have no experience with it worth recounting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2015
  14. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Not traditional, for sure, but part of the techniques.

    Guess I need to talk to some of these online Celastic vendors then. It IS magical material for many performing arts, such as theater and cosplays.
     
  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    What "techniques?" Is using a drill press (instead of a leather punch) "part of the techniques?" Is using a hooked awl, rather than a taw and bristle, part of the techniques? Is a razor blade craft skiver part of the techniques? If nothing else, it's a material not a technique.

    But bottom line it's the answer to a question that never needed to be asked--it poisons the shoemaker and serves no function, outside expediency, that is not better served by a leather stiffener.

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2015

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