Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by DWFII, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    Thanks Bengal Stripe[​IMG]. Understood all terminology and differences.
     


  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    In a similar thread regarding wastage on whole cuts...

     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015


  3. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    A whole-cut (with or without a seam) never counts the tongue: "This shoe is a 'whole-and-a-bit-cut'" .

    The tongue is hardly a main piece of the shoe upper and when cutting the components you don't waste much time considering where to place the tongue. You might be hard pushed to find a piece of leather that is not of good enough quality or not big enough in size to get utilized as a tongue.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2015


  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Then too, I think a case can be made that the tongue is not sewn ...in terms of a conventional seam...to the upper. It is tacked down but not seamed.
     


  5. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Agreed! - "Then you really enter the realm of extravagant cutting!" would have been a better choice!
     


  6. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    :cheers:
     


  7. vmss

    vmss Senior member

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    I wonder how is the Norwegian split toe seen in tradition? Does this upper construction have any benefits compared to captoes, whole cuts etc? or was apron split toe purely looks only?

    How is the apron split toe perceived in tradition and looks in general?
     


  8. wengxiah

    wengxiah Well-Known Member

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    @DWFII
    Hello sir, may I ask, if it is possible to cancel the order if the maker delayed my order too much? Ok I'm sorry for this silly question, but I don't know about the shoemaking industry not sure if cancelling MTO order would make me become 'that guy' which I don't want to be.

    background information: I have ordered shoes from a shoemaker, the original promised delivery time was Nov 2014 but then it was postponed for so many many times without informing + multiple times of ignoring my emails asking about the status of order. And I have not yet received anything, at the same time on his Tumblr&Instagram there're photos of new shoes posted continuously. And the latest promise in June 2015 is now proved to be nothing. So I gave up, I really don't like to be fooled with stupid excuses and so many times ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2015


  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Every shoemaker is different in this regard. It's not really a shoemaking decision as much as a business decision. And perhaps a point of honour.

    Realistically, however, when you work with a bespoke maker of any kind --suits, shoes, guns, whatever--you're working with an individual person in a way that you are not when you order from a manufacturer. Such relationships have their pluses and their problems. Shoemakers are people...merde' happens. For instance, liver failure comes along at the most inopportune times...with no warning and with no way to mitigate it.

    Bespoke shoemakers are small operations...often operating on a thin margin. If the maker in question has already bought the leather he may not offer a full refund. Some do, some don't. It's an investment that cannot be readily recouped.

    If he has started work on the shoes, there is maybe even less chance of backing out of the order.

    I always found that no matter how clear and unequivocal I was when taking an order there were always customers that didn't want to hear it when I said I was backlogged several years (four at one point). Or who got "buyers remorse" after a period of time...during which I had bought leather and lasts, etc.. No business can survive such vagaries.

    As a bespoke maker and a "businessman" (as who should say), I always had a contract that spelled out the terms of the transaction. It was no nonsense...and unapologetically "weighted" in my favour....take it or leave it. That said, most good shoemakers (who want to stay in business) often bend over backwards to satisfy the customer...even if the terms of the contract spell out no obligation to do so.

    Check your contract...if you have one. If not, you may have ample reason to be unhappy but little legal remedy.
     


  10. OzzyJones

    OzzyJones Senior member

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    Gianni Cerutti has started making shoes?
     


  11. wengxiah

    wengxiah Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG] sorry I don't get it
     


  12. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    lolz

    from shoesnobblog

    [​IMG]

    cerruti in the centre
    with shoemakers
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2015


  13. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Just ran across this link (provided by s Styleforum member) and was struck by it.

    https://instagram.com/patrickmtpo/


    I don't use Instagram so I don't know how long this link will remain valid. But right now it is a photo spread of a pair of Delos/Berlutti shoe. About half-way down there is a photo of the maker pre-forming the heel stiffener.

    I've always thought that would be a good technique.

    Anyone else doing it this way?
     


  14. Zapasman

    Zapasman Senior member

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    Is this insole different to others?. Check the back of it.
    [​IMG]
     


  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It's not an insole. It's an outsole.

    It's been thinned in the waist to prepare it for some version of a beveled and perhaps fiddleback waist. The heelseat is left full thickness, as is the forepart.
     


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