• Welcome to our newest affiliate vendor, Threads of Apollo We are very happy to welcome our newest affiliate vendor, Threads of Apollo, a sustainable leather goods company based out of Vancouver, BC, Canada, making premium, made-to-order, water-repellent leather jackets and gloves. .Please help me give them a warm welcome in their new thread.
  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

ntempleman

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
2,068
Lasting nails dont necessarily need to go through the wood to hold the upper in place for stitching. Better all round if you try not to in fact, preserve the wood of the last, the insole will hold the nail ok
 

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
9,995
Reaction score
5,375
I had a similar question, I have a last with a metal heel plate, which nails or tacks do I use? will clinching nails come out after clinching? Did it take prices of leather with it when and if you managed to remove them?
Well, I wouldn't use clinching nails unless I intended them to be permanent (or as permanent as they can be once they start rusting).

Clinching nails will take a small (some would say insignificant) amount of leather with it when the nail is pulled. It's very like a fish hook in your ear. If not visually at least in concept and mechanics.

But as I mentioned in an earlier post when iron rusts it stains the leather--the first stage in what is effectively a carbonization of vegetable tanned leather. Eventually the leather gets brittle just as if it were burned. A clinched nail will take out considerably more than a "small amount" under those circumstances and often considerably earlier than when the insole is fully carbonized. .

FWIW, I have taken metal heel plates off lasts and filled the shallow rebated area with a piece of split soling leather. Works a treat--no functional difference except now you can peg the heel seat.
 

PhilJB

Active Member
Joined
May 20, 2019
Messages
31
Reaction score
9
On a different subject... It's been said here and elsewhere that when stitching the outsole of a dress shoe, high stitch rates (people talk of SPI in the high teens) are not as strong as lower stitch rates.

I wondered what the optimal number of stitches per inch would be purely from a structural point of view (setting aside aesthetics) for a typical hand welted dress shoe?
 

ntempleman

Distinguished Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2014
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
2,068
Depends on the thickness of the material, but for a typical 1/4” sole then somewhere around 11, 12 or 13 has long been the standard for west end work
 

daizawaguy

Distinguished Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
1,246
Reaction score
1,507
I asked before on the custom shoe thread I believe, I am after trying to find out from when metal toe plates were used on town shoes. I am familiar with the quarter steel heel, but cannot find any photos of shoes which are custom and have front steel tips - any ideas or photos to show how far this goes back please?
 

yshin10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
53
I got a LOT to learn and catch up on this thread but @DWFII way earlier you had said that you prefer blake rapid stitching over GYW. Could you expound as to why?
 

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
9,995
Reaction score
5,375
I got a LOT to learn and catch up on this thread but @DWFII way earlier you had said that you prefer blake rapid stitching over GYW. Could you expound as to why?
I think the caveat was "if done correctly."

If done correctly Blake Rapid will have good quality insole, a good quality outsole, and a leather-thread-leather construction technique. And that implies good quality materials. None of which is inherent in GYW, and all of which means more labour 9skilled labour) and more expensive materials. Which is why manufacturers prefer GYW--it has a better bottom line/profit margin.
 

yshin10

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2020
Messages
51
Reaction score
53
I think the caveat was "if done correctly."

If done correctly Blake Rapid will have good quality insole, a good quality outsole, and a leather-thread-leather construction technique. And that implies good quality materials. None of which is inherent in GYW, and all of which means more labour 9skilled labour) and more expensive materials. Which is why manufacturers prefer GYW--it has a better bottom line/profit margin.
I love it. I live in Portland Oregon. Just fyi, do you have any good cobblers or bespoke shoe makes in this area that you know of? I go down to central oregon a lot. I know you are semi retired but wanted to see if you are in the business still?
 

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
9,995
Reaction score
5,375
I love it. I live in Portland Oregon. Just fyi, do you have any good cobblers or bespoke shoe makes in this area that you know of? I go down to central oregon a lot. I know you are semi retired but wanted to see if you are in the business still?
Last I knew...

 

ajd578

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
707
Reaction score
856
I think the caveat was "if done correctly."

If done correctly Blake Rapid will have good quality insole, a good quality outsole, and a leather-thread-leather construction technique. And that implies good quality materials. None of which is inherent in GYW, and all of which means more labour 9skilled labour) and more expensive materials. Which is why manufacturers prefer GYW--it has a better bottom line/profit margin.
Would it be fair to say that Blake rapid is also better because less filler is required, all else equal?
 

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
9,995
Reaction score
5,375
Would it be fair to say that Blake rapid is also better because less filler is required, all else equal?
It's a good point--again, if done correctly. Bear in mind as in the old adage:

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." John Ruskin--applies to Blake-Rapid as well as anything else.
 

ajd578

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2018
Messages
707
Reaction score
856
It's a good point--again, if done correctly. Bear in mind as in the old adage:

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." John Ruskin--applies to Blake-Rapid as well as anything else.
I also feel like people selling Blake rapid shoes are less likely (compared to those selling Goodyear) to bill their method as God's gift to shoemaking. Doesn't make the shoes *better* but maybe easier to stomach :).
 

bernoulli

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
586
Reaction score
3,757
Just posting to thank you, @DWFII. If tradition is making sure knowledge is passed on to new generations, you are the most traditional shoemaker there is.

It's a good point--again, if done correctly. Bear in mind as in the old adage:

"There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey." John Ruskin--applies to Blake-Rapid as well as anything else.
 

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
9,995
Reaction score
5,375
Just posting to thank you, @DWFII. If tradition is making sure knowledge is passed on to new generations, you are the most traditional shoemaker there is.
Thank You.
 

bernoulli

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2012
Messages
586
Reaction score
3,757
@DWFII off topic but I believe you might appreciate this. The artist creates this pieces by taking a knife through leather. No pigments or anything else other than the piece of leather he starts with and a knife. Her dealer said it takes him 3 months to finish a single large piece.

To put this on topic, I assume you can understand his technique much better than people who never worked with leather.

DEABC733-E5F7-42F2-BB04-DFFDDD88717C.jpeg2C4FCCD6-8352-451A-82E8-775710FADD60.jpegD4F7F47D-E664-410E-A7B8-D688170C7C3D.jpeg2454F96E-9342-4AF9-A87B-338698938E74.jpegE9802D86-8016-43AE-98ED-7A387E6338EB.jpeg
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

Styleforum x S.E.H Kelly Balmacaan: Choose the Fabric

  • standard 5 — light and dark brown

    Votes: 8 6.5%
  • standard 7 — dark brown and charcoal

    Votes: 17 13.7%
  • wide 1 — charcoal and blue-grey

    Votes: 7 5.6%
  • wide 3 — barley and brown

    Votes: 5 4.0%
  • wide 5 — charcoal and dark navy

    Votes: 10 8.1%
  • wide 6 — charcoal and black

    Votes: 3 2.4%
  • wide 7 — dark green and black

    Votes: 29 23.4%
  • wide 8 — malt and dark brown

    Votes: 10 8.1%
  • wide 9 — blue-grey and charcoal

    Votes: 35 28.2%

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
458,041
Messages
9,934,379
Members
207,018
Latest member
Hojrak
Top