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Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by DWFII, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. shoefan

    shoefan Senior Member

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    That apron looks hand sewn to me (split and lift stitch?). Likewise, that toe seam appears to be hand sewn (stabbed seam); it could also have a machine sewn stitch further holding the two pieces of leather together at the toe (hidden on the underside of the seam), as it seems to me that those showing stitches might not be sufficient to prevent grinning in the toe seam. Just a guess.
     


  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Yes, same as the ones before (post 248).

    As for the stabbed toe, if we define "grinning" as the seam opening up enough to allow the stitches to show (like teeth), the shoe is grinning as it is. And perhaps...even probably...intentionally so.

    Why else use a brown thread which matches the thread on the apron.

    Personally, I don't like the look.
     


  3. Zapasman

    Zapasman Distinguished Member

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    Thanks again to both of you. It is tricky for me to perceive the difference of the hand vs machine stiched aprons between this tassel loafer (not mine) and the one in the middle in my post # 243 (JMW Demi Chase).

    I do not like this stiched apron either, it "kills" the elegance of the loafer, IMO.
     


  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    You're welcome.

    Just to be clear...the apron is fine, IMO--it's the stabbed toe that I don't care for.
     


  5. Zapasman

    Zapasman Distinguished Member

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    I apologize, I meant the stabbed toe which seems kind of "frankensteinian" to me for a loaferl.
     


  6. vmss

    vmss Senior Member

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    I have a question regarding the split and lift stitch. When the leather is pierced by stabbing a needle (or awl) through the hide, is it normal that the needle or awl chip a small piece of the leather right there?
    or can it be perfectly done without chipping a tiny piece of the leather right where its getting stabbed?
    I have apron that I noticed a very little piece of leather chipped away right at one of the holes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2015


  7. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Who knows?

    First, without a photo, at least, it's hard to visualize what you're talking about, nevermind the cause.

    Second, It could be poor technique, poor tools or poor materials...or some combination of any of them, But it can be done "perfectly" or nearasnevermind.
     


  8. vmss

    vmss Senior Member

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    [​IMG]

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    I took some pictures of the apron where a small piece of leather was chipped. I wonder if this is acceptable in the hand stitch apron? If you take a closer look at the two last pictures you will see on the right side of the apron at the third stitch that the leather was chipped. Is this acceptable or to be expected in hand stitch apron?

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015


  9. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    First, I could be mistaken but. IMO, that's not what we're talking about when we reference "split and lift." Even the apron looks stabbed to me.

    To be "split and lift" the portion of the stitch in the apron would be "tunneling" from the grain surface to the edge of the apron--emerging in the edge.

    As for the chip...hard to say for sure but I would say that it was a "false start." And basically poor technique.
     


  10. vmss

    vmss Senior Member

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    Ok is this still hand stitched or machine? And what do you mean by false start?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015


  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Could be either...as for 'false start', just that perhaps a hole was made that was a little out of the line of stitch or that wasn't solid for some reason and ripped a little as the stitch was being tightened down. Looks to me as if the final position of that stitch is certainly out of line. Could even be a wobble in the way the material was held if it was machine stitched.

    Make no mistake, I'm speculating on all of this but it seems obvious that something went wrong....it's not the leather, IOW.
     


  12. vmss

    vmss Senior Member

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    Is this acceptable if it was hand stitched, since its sewed by human hands? or would these "errors" in stitching become seconds?

    'cause in the future I would be interested in purchasing EG Dover or a similar apron split toe. I would like to learn how to discern apron split toes for what is acceptable and what not.

    The picture of my shoes is from carmina shoemaker and its understood their quality control is good, that is why I am wondering.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015


  13. mw313

    mw313 Distinguished Member

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    that pair is from Carmina??? That is unacceptable from them and I really don't know how they didn't notice and fix this!
     


  14. vmss

    vmss Senior Member

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    Yes its the carmina single monk split toe. That's why I wondered if this is acceptable since their quality control seem to be of very high standard.

    If this is to be expected of apron stitching I would give it place, if not than its kinda disappointing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2015


  15. mw313

    mw313 Distinguished Member

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    I stick with what I previously stated. that is unacceptable from Carmina!
     


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