• We would like to welcome Pete and Harry as an official Affiliate Vendor. Pete and Harry, co-founded by Erik (EFV) one of our long time members and friends, offers a wide variety of products, clothes, watches and accessories, antique, vintage, “pre-loved” and new - all at unparalleled prices. Please visit their new thread and give them a warm welcome.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

shoefan

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
853
Reaction score
203

Machine stiched apron and toe seam stabbed here?.
That apron looks hand sewn to me (split and lift stitch?). Likewise, that toe seam appears to be hand sewn (stabbed seam); it could also have a machine sewn stitch further holding the two pieces of leather together at the toe (hidden on the underside of the seam), as it seems to me that those showing stitches might not be sufficient to prevent grinning in the toe seam. Just a guess.
 

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
10,035
Reaction score
5,432

That apron looks hand sewn to me (split and lift stitch?). Likewise, that toe seam appears to be hand sewn (stabbed seam); it could also have a machine sewn stitch further holding the two pieces of leather together at the toe (hidden on the underside of the seam), as it seems to me that those showing stitches might not be sufficient to prevent grinning in the toe seam.

Just a guess.

Yes, same as the ones before (post 248).

As for the stabbed toe, if we define "grinning" as the seam opening up enough to allow the stitches to show (like teeth), the shoe is grinning as it is. And perhaps...even probably...intentionally so.

Why else use a brown thread which matches the thread on the apron.

Personally, I don't like the look.
 

Zapasman

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
3,389
Reaction score
2,203
Thanks again to both of you. It is tricky for me to perceive the difference of the hand vs machine stiched aprons between this tassel loafer (not mine) and the one in the middle in my post # 243 (JMW Demi Chase).

I do not like this stiched apron either, it "kills" the elegance of the loafer, IMO.
 

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
10,035
Reaction score
5,432

I do not like this stiched apron either, it "kills" the elegance of the loafer, IMO.

You're welcome.

Just to be clear...the apron is fine, IMO--it's the stabbed toe that I don't care for.
 

Zapasman

Distinguished Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
3,389
Reaction score
2,203
I apologize, I meant the stabbed toe which seems kind of "frankensteinian" to me for a loaferl.
 

vmss

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
727
I have a question regarding the split and lift stitch. When the leather is pierced by stabbing a needle (or awl) through the hide, is it normal that the needle or awl chip a small piece of the leather right there?
or can it be perfectly done without chipping a tiny piece of the leather right where its getting stabbed?
I have apron that I noticed a very little piece of leather chipped away right at one of the holes.
 
Last edited:

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
10,035
Reaction score
5,432

I have a question regarding the split and lift stitch. When the leather is pierced by stabbing a needle (or awl) through the hide, is it normal that the needle or awl chip a small piece of the leather right there?
or can it be perfectly done without chipping a tiny piece of the leather right where its getting stabbed?
I have apron that I noticed a very little piece of leather chipped away right at one of the holes.

Who knows?

First, without a photo, at least, it's hard to visualize what you're talking about, nevermind the cause.

Second, It could be poor technique, poor tools or poor materials...or some combination of any of them, But it can be done "perfectly" or nearasnevermind.
 

vmss

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
727








I took some pictures of the apron where a small piece of leather was chipped. I wonder if this is acceptable in the hand stitch apron? If you take a closer look at the two last pictures you will see on the right side of the apron at the third stitch that the leather was chipped. Is this acceptable or to be expected in hand stitch apron?

Thoughts?
 
Last edited:

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
10,035
Reaction score
5,432
First, I could be mistaken but. IMO, that's not what we're talking about when we reference "split and lift." Even the apron looks stabbed to me.

To be "split and lift" the portion of the stitch in the apron would be "tunneling" from the grain surface to the edge of the apron--emerging in the edge.

As for the chip...hard to say for sure but I would say that it was a "false start." And basically poor technique.
 

vmss

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
727
Ok is this still hand stitched or machine? And what do you mean by false start?
 
Last edited:

DWFII

Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Messages
10,035
Reaction score
5,432

Ok is this still hand stitched or machine? And what do you mean by false start?

Could be either...as for 'false start', just that perhaps a hole was made that was a little out of the line of stitch or that wasn't solid for some reason and ripped a little as the stitch was being tightened down. Looks to me as if the final position of that stitch is certainly out of line. Could even be a wobble in the way the material was held if it was machine stitched.

Make no mistake, I'm speculating on all of this but it seems obvious that something went wrong....it's not the leather, IOW.
 

vmss

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
727
Is this acceptable if it was hand stitched, since its sewed by human hands? or would these "errors" in stitching become seconds?

'cause in the future I would be interested in purchasing EG Dover or a similar apron split toe. I would like to learn how to discern apron split toes for what is acceptable and what not.

The picture of my shoes is from carmina shoemaker and its understood their quality control is good, that is why I am wondering.
 
Last edited:

mw313

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
2,452
Reaction score
521
Is this acceptable if it was hand stitched, since its sewed by human hands? or would these "errors" in stitching become seconds?

'cause in the future I would be interested in purchasing EG Dover or a similar apron split toe. I would like to learn how to discern apron split toes for what is acceptable and what not.

The picture of my shoes is from carmina shoemaker and its understood their quality control is good, that is why I am wondering.
that pair is from Carmina??? That is unacceptable from them and I really don't know how they didn't notice and fix this!
 

vmss

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2015
Messages
1,216
Reaction score
727
Yes its the carmina single monk split toe. That's why I wondered if this is acceptable since their quality control seem to be of very high standard.

If this is to be expected of apron stitching I would give it place, if not than its kinda disappointing.
 
Last edited:

mw313

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2014
Messages
2,452
Reaction score
521
Yes its the carmina single monk split toe. That's why I wondered if this is acceptable since their quality control seem to be of very high standard.

If this is to be expected of apron stitching I would give it place, if not than its kinda disappointing.
I stick with what I previously stated. that is unacceptable from Carmina!
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

How often do you get a haircut?

  • Every 2 weeks

  • Every 3 weeks

  • Once a month

  • Every 6 weeks or longer


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
464,160
Messages
10,025,884
Members
209,392
Latest member
ancalagon
Top