Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

[Lumaca]

I was discussing some construction methods with a friend when we came upon a subject that needs an expert opinion:

Does the chain norvegese stitch around an upper serve any function or is it purely ornamental? Attached are two pictures of the shoe discussed: Anthony Delos' award winning boots.

 

[shoesforever]

From my understanding it's both ornamental and to waterproof the shoe. There are different ways to do it. The waterproofing will therefore depend on which construction the maker used for their shoes. The illustrations are from a German shoemaker book. I don't know the title, since it was shown to me by a rtw manufacturer.

Richtig= right way
Falsch: False way

 

[Lumaca]

Your illustration convinced me that Delos used an ORNAMENTAL stitch, because it doesnt go through any welt but only the upper. I guess it's not really Norvegese, more like faux-norvegese.

 

[shoesforever]

@Lumaca Yeah, my answer was a bit incomplete. I forgot to differentiate between the chain stitch and the rest of the construction, but glad it was helpful anyway. I was a bit in a hurry.

 

[ntempleman]

It’s entirely functional, the stitches are what holds the upper together with the insole in the exact same way conventional welt stitches do. The extra two threads woven between the welt stitches are for decoration though.

The two German illustrations are both examples of functional welt stitches, the only difference is one has the upper turned out while the other doesn’t, and that has no bearing on whether the sewing is functional or not. In “West End” terminology, the Delos boot is Norwegian Welted, and the illustrations are of Norwegian Storm Welts due to the addition of a strip of welt that is turned out along with, or in lieu of, the upper itself.

 

[deez shoes]

It’s entirely functional, the stitches are what holds the upper together with the insole in the exact same way conventional welt stitches do. The extra two threads woven between the welt stitches are for decoration though.

The two German illustrations are both examples of functional welt stitches, the only difference is one has the upper turned out while the other doesn’t, and that has no bearing on whether the sewing is functional or not. In “West End” terminology, the Delos boot is Norwegian Welted, and the illustrations are of Norwegian Storm Welts due to the addition of a strip of welt that is turned out along with, or in lieu of, the upper itself.

Wouldn't the Norwegian storm welt method be more practical since it adds a little more protection to that area against the elements?

I've seen shoes that are Norwegian welted strictly through the uppers but still contain a storm welt that doesn't even seem to make contact with the upper at all.

 

[ntempleman]

Depends on what you consider practical - it’s more heavy duty and arguably affords more water proofing, but will make for a much stiffer and aesthetically chunkier looking shoe. All construction methods have their merits, you won’t always need maximum protection so options are great to have.

 

[deez shoes]

Depends on what you consider practical - it’s more heavy duty and arguably affords more water proofing, but will make for a much stiffer and aesthetically chunkier looking shoe. All construction methods have their merits, you won’t always need maximum protection so options are great to have.

Good point.

 

[Lumaca]

It’s entirely functional, the stitches are what holds the upper together with the insole in the exact same way conventional welt stitches do. The extra two threads woven between the welt stitches are for decoration though.

The two German illustrations are both examples of functional welt stitches, the only difference is one has the upper turned out while the other doesn’t, and that has no bearing on whether the sewing is functional or not. In “West End” terminology, the Delos boot is Norwegian Welted, and the illustrations are of Norwegian Storm Welts due to the addition of a strip of welt that is turned out along with, or in lieu of, the upper itself.

So in this particular shoe, I'm assuming the sole itself is done in handwelted construction, since the welt is not of the storm variety? Then the question becomes: is there a point to move the stitch in question to the outside of the shoe? Since in the conventional handwelted construction the stitch connecting the welt-upper-insole would usually be hidden.

 

[ntempleman]

The aim is to create a more water resistant shoe. By turning the upper out to create the “welt” you end up with a single span of material for water to run off from. The seam left when using a separate welt strip leaves a weak spot where water can penetrate

 

[ntempleman]

.

 

[Lumaca]

I see... I've had an explanation of the purpose of the leather as welt which acts as a gutter to divert water away from the sole.

What I just found out from your explanation is that Norwegian and Norwegian Storm welt are 2 things entirely.

I assume that on a shoe with the pure norwegian welt construction, the welt should be part of the upper. In fact it should be very similar in appearance to Stitchdown, except instead of 2 rows of stitching on the welt/upper, it is one row on the side of the upper and one on the upper on top of the sole?

I am getting sliiightly dizzy from all these lol

 

[bengal-stripe]

Your illustration convinced me that Delos used an ORNAMENTAL stitch, because it doesnt go through any welt but only the upper. I guess it's not really Norvegese, more like faux-norvegese.

Here is a picture of the Delos boot in it's entirety. As Delos states, his aim was to create three different sole treatments within a single shoe:

To highlight my craft and its roots, I wanted to design a shoe that had both vintage and contemporary appeal, even though buttoned shoes have become quite uncommon. So I went for a modern shape. For the assembly, I chose a Norwegian construction, round internal and external edges with a relief at the shank. The braided Norwegian construction highlights the heel.

I have never seen a shoe making use of those three specific techniques : Norwegian and welted construction and braided Norwegian.
https://parisiangentleman.co.uk/201...iece-by-anthony-delos-best-artisan-in-france/

So you have Norwegian construction with the upper leather turned out in the forepart, a bevelled waist with the upper leather turned under and the heel section with the upper leather turned under again (although that's difficult to see). I presume he has utilised a middle sole, which, strictly speaking, is not a welt, but to all intend and purpose is acting like a welt. There is nothing decorative or faux in the construction of this shoe.

Here is another picture of Delos working on a riding boot in Norwegian construction:

He stitches though the insole out and through the upper leather (which is folded under while in construction, but gets folded out once all the stitches are in place).




Hope that helps.

 

[bengal-stripe]

What I just found out from your explanation is that Norwegian and Norwegian Storm welt are 2 things entirely.

They are! - Norwegian storm welt is known in Austria/Hungary as 'Goiser' and in Italy as 'Bentivegna' construction.

 

[deez shoes]

They are! - Norwegian storm welt is known in Austria/Hungary as 'Goiser' and in Italy as 'Bentivegna' construction.

Thanks for the names! I've heard of the "goiser" word but never the "bentivegna." It must be a rarely used construction method in Italy .. or at least for shoe orders from Italian shoemakers.