Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions--"...these foolish things..."

[ntempleman]

You’ve got a little less chance of them “delaminating” and you can get a better, more even finish. Leather properties change quite considerably as you go deeper into the skin, so as you sand the edges some parts will lose more substance than others. Thinner lifts will be more uniform as they are all taken from closer to the edge of the grain side.

 

[onijo84]

The best of the Berg clones I’ve got are from Minke, the Scheins are sort of chrome plated which I’m not too keen on and the bolt protrudes either side of the pincers. There’s three sizes of Berg, and the cloners tend to offer the narrowest and the middle sizes. The two I use most are the widest and the narrowest. If you only wanted one then you could get away with the middle only, but the narrow one is extremely useful.

Not sure I remember what shape the Barnsley pincers are, but you often see those pincers with straight jaws online. Swedish pattern are what you want really, with curved jaws.

I agree with @ntempleman but I have a wide array of pincers. I have two bona fide Bergs--one narrow jaw, one medium. I have three Scheins--one narrow, one medium and one extra wide. i don't particularly mind the chrome.--it has never come off. I also have a "wide" German version.

I have several Whitcher style pincers made by Christenson, and Union and a older pair which is similar to the ones Barnsley offered. IMO, these are better (better leverage, more direct) for the first draft in the toe and again in the heel esp if you are lasting "seats up."

And I have three pair of bulldogs.

And FWIW, while most of my pincers started off life with a fairly square jaw, I always take the "corners off slightly (while still retaining the "square-ish' shape) and smooth out any sharp edges (not the teeth).

I am not fond of straight jawed pincers.

Thank you DW & Nicholas. I did not know Scheins were chrome plated. Well, I myself am particular with the quality of the tools, material wise. I believe these tools will be with me for years and not one that will be sold to make way for an 'upgrade' once a certain degree of competency and experience is achieved. Managed to get some pictures of Minke. They have a narrow and wide jawed pincer. The narrow one is 7mm wide with a
Length measuring 20cm whereas the other is 16mm wide with a length measuring 23cm. The Barnsley(last picture) ones have a different 'beak' like nose. They(Barnsley) do have one being passed off as a 'continental' pincer. Not sure if they are of a similar shape to what Minke clones.

 

[onijo84]

The Barnsley ones are like the one below.

 

[ntempleman]

Lasting will be much more pleasant with Minkes. I think they’re older pictures, pretty sure the ones I bought a few years ago have flush bolts

 

[DWFII]

That's a whitcher style although there are better ones: (the pair on the right is a USM which I have since traded off for a pair of Christensens's.)

 

[onijo84]

Lasting will be much more pleasant with Minkes. I think they’re older pictures, pretty sure the ones I bought a few years ago have flush bolts

Thanks Nicholas. I see. I hope they have not changed to this now. When you said you would go with the middle one, will that be the thick or thin jawed Minke?

 

[ntempleman]

I’m probably confused though, all my other pincers are in a box somewhere. The middle Berg is roughly the size of the larger Minke or Schein. Get both sizes though, you’ll use them all

 

[florent]

You’ve got a little less chance of them “delaminating” and you can get a better, more even finish. Leather properties change quite considerably as you go deeper into the skin, so as you sand the edges some parts will lose more substance than others. Thinner lifts will be more uniform as they are all taken from closer to the edge of the grain side.

That makes perfectly sense, thanks for the explanation!

 

[onijo84]

I’m probably confused though, all my other pincers are in a box somewhere. The middle Berg is roughly the size of the larger Minke or Schein. Get both sizes though, you’ll use them all

No worries Nicholas. I thought so too. 502 if I am not wrong. That was helpful. No harm having a few variants as each would come to use for a specific purpose. Much appreciated.

Thank you DW!

 

[DWFII]

Thank you DW!

You're welcome. As mentioned the Whitchers have a different angle of "pull" so they are my go-to's for the first three drafts in the toe and the "hoisting" draft at the heel.

 

[bengal-stripe]

......the ones used by bespoke makers are opaque and quite thin shrink film bags, last-shaped and open at the bottom.

Maybe some adventurous wholesaler will stock them at some point in the future, selling them in small quantities and with a standard wholesale margin.

Well, my word in Lisa Sorrell's ear (just kidding), but these protective bags are now available (in quantities as small as a single pair) from bootmaker Lisa Sorrell in her 'Notions and Findings' web-shop. Judging by the picture, they are the original English ones:

https://sorrellnotionsandfindings.com/product/shoe-cover/

 

[Luigi_M]

Pretty much spot on...but I block the vamp and the lining separately.

I interrupted your really interesting explanation, about the making of a seamless wholecut, with a silly joke : no disrespect was intended, but nevertheless I beg pardon and I'd like to learn more.
Do you first block the lining and then you pull and block the vamp over it, or do you block the lining, remove it from the last, block the vamp and finally put them both on the last again, over one another, and pull them tight?
To the layman as I am, each way seems to have pros and cons and so I'd like to hear your rationale.
Thank you. Luigi.

 

[DWFII]

I interrupted your really interesting explanation, about the making of a seamless wholecut, with a silly joke : no disrespect was intended, but nevertheless I beg pardon and I'd like to learn more.
Do you first block the lining and then you pull and block the vamp over it, or do you block the lining, remove it from the last, block the vamp and finally put them both on the last again, over one another, and pull them tight?
To the layman as I am, each way seems to have pros and cons and so I'd like to hear your rationale.
Thank you. Luigi.

I'm not an expert on this...for that you'd need to ask these questions of Antonio Meccarieilo...but I block the linings and the vamps separately simply because trying to block the vamps over the lining seems to prevent the pipes and wrinkle from being pulled out completely. And if you block to a smaller dimension initially, then reblock over the lining it allows any remaining pipes or wrinkles to open/spread out.

Again I'm not an expert. Ask this question in the AM thread...I'd like to hear his answer, myownself.

 

[beargonefishing]

@DWFII Any rhyme or reason you don’t see many cordovan cowboy boots? I have seen all manners of boots, born and raised in Texas, made from caiman, crocodile, alligator, ostrich, snake, calf, lizard, etc. but don’t recall an single pair of cordovan.

 

[ntempleman]

Cordovan shells aren’t very big, you’d struggle to get the legs out of one I’d imagine