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Shoe Fit: Brannock Device vs Your real world size.

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Shikar, Jul 26, 2012.

  1. Shikar

    Shikar Senior member

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    Houston, Tx
    After a looong time I got measured at the AE store today on the brannock. L- 10D R- 11D

    AE- 11.5D, except Strand in 11D.
    Peal- 11.5D
    RL- (C&J , EG) 11.5D
    EG- 10.5/11 E 202, 11/11.5 D 888, 82
    Lobb- 10.5E UK 7000/8000, except William feels way bigger in 10.5E UK.
    G&G- 11E UK
    Berluti- 11.5D US
    AS- 10.5F UK
    Alden- 11.5D Plaza, 11.5D in Barrie is way too big.
    Suzuki- I wish....:embar:

    So it seems the *Device* is no where near my personal comfortable shoe sizes, which i don't wear too snug, I like toe wiggle room. My left foot is smaller as I expected, but a whole size was unexpected. Trying different widths and sizes was great in a real store, but sadly wont carry over to other shoe makers/lasts.

    Whats your experience with device vs real world size?

    Regards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  2. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

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    Similar experience here. According to the Brannock and the people operating it I always cone out at 8.5 D with my left foot slightly bigger than the right. However, based on my subjective sense of comfort I have rarely found a US 8.5 or equivalent to fit.

    AE 9D in all lasts that I have tried
    EG 82 last 8.5/9E
    JL 8E
    Vass U last 42.5
    Vass F last 42
    Barker Black 8E
    RM Williams 8
    St. Crispin's 8.5F UK equivalent (can't remember the Euro size; 42 I think).

    There are no objective signs of my shoes being too big such as abnormal creasing or gaps at the ankle.

    Does this have to do with how tight a fit one likes's?
     
  3. PhiPsi32

    PhiPsi32 Senior member

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    Jan 28, 2012
    My feet are the same size. Heel to toe on the Brannock, I am an 11C. Heel to ball, I am an 11.5B/C.

    AE #5 11.5B
    AE #7 11C
    Alden Leydon/Hampton/Plaza 11.5B
    Alden Barrie/Trubalance 10.5D
    Alden Modified 11C
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2012
  4. Joker Man

    Joker Man Senior member

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    What is the arch measurement on the brannock? And have you had your feet measured a number of times late in the day?

    And you have every brand of shoe that you mentioned above?
     
  5. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

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  6. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

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    I've had my feet measured at various times of the day including late in the day. The result is always 8.5D. My left foot is slightly longer than my right but still short of 9. I have a narrow heel and slippage is sometimes a problem. Heel fit is best with a pair of Barker Black Archdale's.. My JL Beckett's are the worst in this respect.
     
  7. Claus

    Claus Senior member

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    Germany
    There are a number of reasons for these differences.

    First, it's also the fault of the buyer: When one pick a pair of shoes, first, one thereby pre-select the last. Chances are there's almost always a mismatch between foot shape and last shape. That needs to be corrected by selecting different sizes and widths, and, consequently, you'll end up with sizes all over the place.

    But Brannock has it's problem, too, in my opinion.

    First, for the arch length "feature" to work, the devise needs to assume a fixed ratio between foot length and arch lenght. But why should any shoe maker use the same ratio?

    Second, width is relative to the last. A "D" just means the "initial" ball girth of the last, and that can be almost anything. The Barrie last in D is much wider than, say AE's 5-65 last. Brannock cannot account for these differences.

    Finally, devise makers such a Brannock appear to use a nominal allowance of 2 full units (UK or US), while most people wear shoes with 1.5 units – at least, according to my data. In other words, even Brannock's length measurement appears to be half a size too long, in general.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2012
  8. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

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    ^ which is why I have never followed the Brannock but rather experimented with which particular last fits best within one maker's range of products and across all makers. As an example, with Vass the F last fits me better than the U even after figuring out my correct size in each respective last.
     
  9. PhiPsi32

    PhiPsi32 Senior member

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    Anyone else wish to disclose their Brannock size vs. actual shoe size? We can start an ancillary thread for discussion of specific cases.
     
  10. Joker Man

    Joker Man Senior member

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    Yes what? You had your foot measured numerous times by a pro or you purchased every one of those shoes New and in the maker's shop and not off ebay or used which would make you size calculations void?
     
  11. Joker Man

    Joker Man Senior member

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    Let's leave out these fringe shoes from Eastern Europe and their sizing. No one wears Vass or cares about their sizing. We talking about US and UK makers and the brannock devices calibrated for each country. You could probably also include a lot of Italian, Spanish etc shoes in the same category because they sell a lot in countries that use the brannock sizing and they make their shoes to correspond to that.
     
  12. Joker Man

    Joker Man Senior member

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    You're just plain wrong. Width is relative to size not last. But all of this talk is superfluous because 9 out of 10 noobs here can't even get their size and width right.
     
  13. gsugsu

    gsugsu Senior member

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    Thanks for the questions and I realize I should have been more clear. Yes, the shoes were all new save for the Barker Black's which were lightly used and purchased from a SF member. Most were purchased in bricks and mortar establishments so I could establish my size for a particular brand and a particular last. Once I have my size pinned down I will order online from an authorized dealer. The Vass U last were purchased new from Vass via a SF member. I suppose i took a flyer on sizing based on reading the Vass thread(s) and asking questions of various members with a great deal of experience with Vass. I've never purchased shoes on EBay.

    So yes, I have had my feet measured by professionals numerous times and despite the 8.5D Brannock measurement I feel more comfortable in a 9D US or equivalent. Maybe I am wrong basing my choices on my subjective feelings of how the shoes fit but I have to wear them and I have no regrets.
     
  14. Claus

    Claus Senior member

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    Your choice may not be purely based on subjective feelings about shoe fit.

    It's very common for men with an absolute small foot length to have above-average width and girth measurements, ie. a relatively wider and higher foot shape. At least, according to my data.

    Since most lasts are not made for such foot shapes (or they are unknown to buyers), such people tend to size up from their reference size. I have the same, well, "problem".

    Strictly speaking, though, your shoes are probably 1/3 inch (about 8.5mm) longer than recommended, provided your Brannock size is based on foot length.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  15. rs232

    rs232 Senior member

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    ^But only provided that the lasts he chooses are of the same proportion as his feet.

    [​IMG]

    Consider the large number of sizing issues on the Vass U last, and the various rules of thumb of sizing up and down on that last (darker tree above, lighter is EG888). These largely stem from the high, forward positioning of the instep, and the low volume, narrow toe box - i.e. you need a high arch and small toes to fit it well. Most people don't have this combination, so they size up if they have a high arch and large toes, or down if they have a lower arch and small toes (this would be me: normal arch, small toes, US9B on the Brannock, 41 on the U last). Those with normal or low arches and large toes or wide feet have experienced much disappointment because of this.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  16. Claus

    Claus Senior member

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    I meant it the other way around: He makes the absolute proportions of the last similar to those of his feet by tweaking the size, and consequently, the inner "volume". While the volume may then be correct, the length of the shoe is not, strictly speaking.

    Your image demonstrates this perfectly, in my opinion. It's a great shot.
     

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