Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II

[NAMOR]



Not quite what was hoping for as split toes are not my fave but glad you found and like.
Enjoy
http://gentlemansgent.blogspot.co.uk/

im diggin' the blog but your pics grossly under appreciate the subjects.

 

[Pliny]

Dover on the 606 In Dark Oak,
Ever since Selling my Ecton's, a few years ago - I was wanting a replacement.
I viewed the Green Suede range at the Jermyn St store - good looking Shoes if you have the 'Balls'...
Excuse the poor res IPhone pics.

Aint nothing wrong wid dis pic- score

 

[NAMOR]



Dover on the 606 In Dark Oak,
Ever since Selling my Ecton's, a few years ago - I was wanting a replacement.
I viewed the Green Suede range at the Jermyn St store - good looking Shoes if you have the 'Balls'...
Excuse the poor res IPhone pics.

im not a critic of the Dover but im no fan either. might be the most polarizing shoe in all of SF. more so for some than others..

 

[Tailor Dan]



im diggin' the blog but your pics grossly under appreciate the subjects.

Am thinking you mean how thy tans and quality of pic. Absolutely agree but only things I have it's me when about London is my iPad or iPhone. Don't have luxury of taking my D60 as am working when in city.

Poses, well I'm still a novice here so am researching photos that look good here and on Internet but appreciate any suggestions you think will help.

Appreciate the post though, NAMOR.


http://gentlemansgent.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[fritzl]



Not quite what was hoping for as split toes are not my fave but glad you found and like.
Enjoy
http://gentlemansgent.blogspot.co.uk/

they are a staple in every man's wardrobe, imo

 

[NORE]



what is your problem? The sole treatment is nowhere as important as the work on the uppers. Corrected grain leather stitched together by a myopic shoemaker (stole that one from DWFII), but placed on a closed channel sole with the G&G treatment ? Good choice.
Open Channel vs closed channel is 99% a question of aesthetics. You have absolutely no idea what I know or don't know. Newb? WTF? I've owned and worn more shoes in the last YEAR than you probably have in your lifetime. AND, although my opinions are based on PERSONAL EXPERIENCE in a wide breadth of makers and stylings (from EG to Lobb to C&J to AS to Santoni to Lattanzi... AND the Vintage 1920's- 1950's shoes you HATE but have never actually owned or worn), yours are based on a self-inflated ego trip.
You need to focus on your internet Appreciation collection again and try to get carpal tunnel in the OTHER wrist rather than trying to "insult" me.

Just because you collect vintage shoes doesn't make you an expert, especially with shoes made yesterday. I am by no means a shoe expert, but all shoe guys know that a closed channel is more desireable than it's counterpart. In the case of, say, C&J bench vs handgrades the resole upcharge on a closed channel shoe is only 10 pounds. Does C&J use the more craft intensive method (whereas they cut the channel at a deeper angle*)? I don't know. But for a shoe guy, it is definitely a sign of attention to detail as you have confirmed in the quote below (bolded portion).

What you say is pretty subjective. In general, closed-channel stitching takes more work and skills to accomplish, therefore it costs more to make. Given a choice, I would go with closed-channel stitching every time because to me, it's elegant and slick. Why do you think only on more expensive brand as you mentioned from EG to Lobb that they always offer closed-stiching channel?
Some people don't care for it, maybe because they're close-minded or whatever the reason might be, but it's hard to argue that closed-channel stitching is cheap to make. At $200 dollars, having it is quite amazing to me.
Admittedly, the upper leather isn't on par with EG or Lobb, I'm not going to talk about upper leather because that's not the point of my post.

I wasn't responding to you there.
I personally LIKE closed-channel stitching. It is usually a sign that the maker cared about every detail of the shoes. Of those makers I listed above, each offers closed stitching in its' TOP line. Again, a sign that they are paying closer attention to detail in their top offerings.
However, GIVEN A CHOICE of where one would rather the maker spent manufacturing dollars, uppers or closed channel sole, it seems like a no-brainer. Would you trade a lower quality upper for closed stitching sole? OR, would you trade upper stitch quality (close, straight, uniform) for closed channel soles?
My only point was that in order to sell a pair of shoes for $200, the maker MUST be saving money somewhere in order to still make a profit. If they're paying xtra money for the sole treatment, they MUST be saving it elsewhere in order to still make a profit. All things equal, I like close channel. In a $200 shoe, I'd prefer they spend the money on the construction and the uppers. Soles is last on my priority list.

You know, I used to go to visit the conservative business dress thread to watch arguments....

I like how Uncle Mac comes in every now and again to break up these arguments, don't you?

Reminds me of the people who used to put plastic on their furniture.

I just somehow hate the way it feels walking on topy

*

A lot depends on how you define "closed channel" and even more on how it is done.
Some closed channel stitching will see the channel wear open and expose the threads in short order...and in the process the leather looks terribly ragged and tawdry.
A channel can be cut that is parallel to the surface of the outsole. It won't last long.
A channel can be cut that is perpendicular to the surface of the outsole. It will be visible from the outset..
A channel can be cut at an angle and it will wear cleanly and protect the thread.
Bottom line, however is that protecting the threads is the main objective. And a "channel" must be tightly closed to be effective in that achieving that goal.
A channel that is really just a groove is not effective...aesthetically or functionally.
If a company chooses to sell at a certain price level...to "occupy a niche" ...that does not afford a decent profit without compromising quality, then you're correct that choosing to use better quality raw materials rather than invest in what is essentially cosmetic ...ornamentations...is a survival strategy. But any company that operates within those kinds of constraints will never produce a consistently high quality product simply because the bar is always moving.

 

[NORE]



A lot depends on how you define "closed channel" and even more on how it is done.
Some closed channel stitching will see the channel wear open and expose the threads in short order...and in the process the leather looks terribly ragged and tawdry.
A channel can be cut that is parallel to the surface of the outsole. It won't last long.
A channel can be cut that is perpendicular to the surface of the outsole. It will be visible from the outset..
A channel can be cut at an angle and it will wear cleanly and protect the thread.
Bottom line, however is that protecting the threads is the main objective. And a "channel" must be tightly closed to be effective in that achieving that goal.
A channel that is really just a groove is not effective...aesthetically or functionally.
If a company chooses to sell at a certain price level...to "occupy a niche" ...that does not afford a decent profit without compromising quality, then you're correct that choosing to use better quality raw materials rather than invest in what is essentially cosmetic ...ornamentations...is a survival strategy. But any company that operates within those kinds of constraints will never produce a consistently high quality product simply because the bar is always moving.

DW, in your professional opinion, do shoemakers that employ Goodyear welting use open channeled (or stitched aloft) methods to cut costs in lieu of closed channeled welting, no matter the angle of the cut? I have had shoes form several makers with closed channel welting that either wore thru to the stitch quickly or not, and have had shoes stitched aloft and could not figure why anyone would leave the stitched exposed given a choice, even if the stitching method meant that if one stitch broke or wore thru, it wouldn't cause a massive unraveling event. Why do they do that (stitch aloft)?

 

[earthdragon]



Not quite what was hoping for as split toes are not my fave but glad you found and like.
Enjoy
http://gentlemansgent.blogspot.co.uk/

Unfortunately, each of the the Shoes that I had interest in (Ashby, Halifax and Plymouth) were non-stocked items and Phuked if I'm waiting for 5 months.
In addition, none of the Suede offerings were to my liking ...Oyster, Mushroom and the appropriate for yesterday, St Patricks Day Green.

Anyways - each to their own - One mans meat is another mans poison - which is why I cannot get hard for Shell, Darltons, Marlows etc...

 

[isshinryu101]



Just because you collect vintage shoes doesn't make you an expert, especially with shoes made yesterday.

I collect ALL kinds of quality shoes, from those made 80+ years ago to those made last week.

But for a shoe guy, it is definitely a sign of attention to detail as you have confirmed in the quote below (bolded portion).

Not necessarily. With places like SF applauding the use of the closed channel (and 'lickable') sole, and equating it's use with proof a shoe is higher quality, a savvy marketing research department would inform the manufacturing dept that it should be included in the final product.. regardless of quality. The $200 shoe with closed channel stitch is proof of this. Some see the sole and assume, "this MUST be a high quality shoe, with attention to detail". One who is knowledgeable of the formula: price - (costs of materials + manufacturing + packaging + marketing) = final net profit, would have to question whether this is truly the case.

 

[cliche]

What is the best shoe model to get the burnish look on, only on the front.

 

[mr monty]



im not a critic of the Dover but im no fan either. might be the most polarizing shoe in all of SF. more so for some than others..

To get the full impact of wearing Dovers, you got to get dressed up and walk in them.

 

[DWFII]



DW, in your professional opinion, do shoemakers that employ Goodyear welting use open channeled (or stitched aloft) methods to cut costs in lieu of closed channeled welting, no matter the angle of the cut? I have had shoes form several makers with closed channel welting that either wore thru to the stitch quickly or not, and have had shoes stitched aloft and could not figure why anyone would leave the stitched exposed given a choice, even if the stitching method meant that if one stitch broke or wore thru, it wouldn't cause a massive unraveling event. Why do they do that (stitch aloft)?

It all comes down to profit margins, and that in turn governs what the priorities of the operation are. By itself Goodyear construction is so commonplace as to almost be the new standard of quality , especially among those who don't know any better. But unfortunately the switch from handwelted (or some reasonable facsimile) is indicative/symptomatic of a more profound flaw in both vision and the acceptance of responsibility to the customer.

All by way of saying that once Goodyear construction is embraced, other expediencies are inevitable.

I don't know of a single exception in which Goodyear construction has not led to a concomitant decrease in the quality of the insole. Sometimes...at least for a time...the insole remains leather, although not of the same substance or quality needed for hand welted work. But eventually fiberboard or leatherboard insoles are substituted. It's too tempting inb terms of profit especially since the customer doesn't know any better and seemingly doesn't care to know.

And so it goes...all in the name of minimizing the cost of production and maximizing profit.

Eventually, even if a company starts out hand channeling the outsole, somewhere along the line pressure will mount to get rid of the labour costs and the time associated with hand channeling and a faster cheaper solution will be sought.Sometimes those solutions are satisfactory in terms of objective quality...sometimes not so much.

When a shoe is stitched aloft or groove channeled, grit gets to the stitches almost immediately and begins to destroy the integrity of the stitch. Everyone who knows anything about shoes or even simple mechanics understand this is going on. But it's cheaper, it allows the shoes to compete at a more profitable margin and as Isshin mentioned, marketing will take up the slack.

I don't see anything functionally wrong with a tightly closed, machine sewn, vertical channel. I like and admire an angled channel, hand cut or machine cut.

But a horizontal channel, hand cut, or more likely machine cut, is almost as bad as stitching aloft. And IMO, a grooved channel is not much better than stitching aloft.

 

[mr monty]



I REALLY like that look. What a fantastic, and daring, contrast. I think that chestnut color is more versatile than many people give it credit for.

+1 chestnut is fantastic

 

[Gdot]

I like chestnut/english tan in the spring/summer. Even with lightweight navy blue suits. It's a bit 'out there' for some. But I find if I wear a tie or a square that relates well to the color of the shoe it all comes together just fine for my non conservative environment.

 

[isshinryu101]



+1 chestnut is fantastic

Great collection in Chestnut. I appreciate how each shoe is totally unique in its' style. One would never know that the same man owned all those pairs.