Shoe Damage Report & Shoe P0rn Central - Part II

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Oyaji, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. arahat

    arahat Senior member

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    A question primarily for experts like DWFII.

    The Australian label Feit, claims to have a 'hand-sewn' goodwear welt construction and handsewn stitchdown construction.
    http://www.feitdirect.com/shop/categories/Materials-and-Construction/

    HANDSEWN GOODYEAR WELT

    A welt refers to a piece of leather which is hand stitched to the upper of a shoe as an attach point for the sole. This process was pioneered by the Goodyear family and is the traditional method for manufacturing men’s dress shoes. The upper of the shoe is stretched over the last and stitched to a leather strip known as a welt. The Vibram sole is then stitched to this welt. This is a labour intensive process performed by expert craftspeople and allows for constant air flow through the shoe aiding ventilation, durability and strength.

    HANDSEWN STITCHDOWN

    In the stitchdown process, the upper is stretched over the last, flanged out and sewn by hand to the sole. this hand sewn lock stitch is made up of a top and a bottom stitch which are then interstitched. Therefore the stitching will not unravel, even if a stitch is removed. Shoes with stitchdown construction can use leathers of a higher oil and fat content. This leads to a very supple feel, which cheaper imitations of this process can not achieve.




    I am wondering if it's really still a goodyear welt since the welt is handsewn without the goodyear welting machine?
    Also is the stitchdown really just a Blake construction shoe in another name?


    Cheers for taking the time to answer these trivialities.
     


  2. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Arahat,

    A lot of this is nonsense--it doesn't really offer any hard information, IOW.

    Goodyear construction is associated with machine work although it can be done by hand (why anyone would want to...when full hand welted is not significantly harder, doesn't need additional materials, and results in immensely betterr quality...is beyond my comprehension).

    Generally speaking, GY involves gluing a rib of canvas...called "gemming"...to the insole. The upper and welt are then sewn, by machine, to the canvas.

    At bottom, the binding principle is glue.

    Handwelted sews the upper and welt directly to the insole...by hand. The binding principle is leather and a heavy thread that is coated/inundated with a pine tar based wax. Handwelted requires a leather insole of far better quality and more substance than GY needs, or is commonplace in GY construction.

    As is typical of marketing hype, the description at the link doesn't really provide any specifics to indicate what techniques or materials are used. But, broadly speaking, "handsewn Goodyear" is an oxymoron.

    That said, some makers have over the years, come to associate the term "Goodyear" with any technique that adds a functional welt.

    Stitchdown construction is simply that...and pretty close to what the link describes. It is not Blake or Fairstitched (Blake/Rapid).
     


  3. isshinryu101

    isshinryu101 Senior member

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    The Handstitch Sewdown sounds like Norvegese. Weltless construction with upper sewn directly into topsole. Hand-stitched.

    I was under the impression that to be "Goodyear", the Goodyear machining process was used (sewing the welt to the topsole), thus not really "hand-stitched". Not sure if hand-stitching the welt to the upper makes a true "hand-stitch"

    Hand welted is a different process, where the welting is done sans machine.

    I do not trust many makers who claim "hand-stitching", as this can be loosely interpreted.

    DWFII will know for sure.
     


  4. isshinryu101

    isshinryu101 Senior member

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    i hadn't even noticed these are SNEAKERS. WTF? Why even worry about "hand-stitching" rubber & glued sneaks?
     


  5. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    And here I was thinking Goodyear was a tire company :rolleyes:
     


  6. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    No,
    the stitchdown very different,
    it not very good.
    Upper turn out over outsole and stitch to it with less spi because it less structure casual shoe,
    but no stitch to insole (no hand inseam like norvegese).
    Stitchdown is construction that man teach in basic shoe maker course,
    it easy.
    Stitchdown use no lining,
    it casual warm weather construction.
    If man want stitchdown construction with lining shoe maker do variation of it and gem lining to insole,
    this called Veldtschoen construction.
    Look
    [​IMG]

    compare it to norvegese,
    it very very different
    [​IMG]





    Yes.
    Many say different but they wrong.
    Goodyear construction stitch by goodyear machine.

    Yes,
    but it more hand stitch if inseam to insole or else it very silly.


    It mean many thing.
    Hand stitch in stitchdown construction not very special.
    Hand stitch welt very very special.
    Hand stitch norvegese very very special.
    Hand stitch bentivegna L welt very very special.
    Hand stitch welt and hand wood peg very very special.
    Hand stitch blake and hand stitch bon welt in fairstitch construction very very special,
    but not many man do this any in this day.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012


  7. mcarthur

    mcarthur Senior member

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    nephew,
    thank you
     


  8. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    Many place call fair stitch construction the goodyear.
    Me say the goodyear in link is a bon welt that is add to shoe and glued there.
    Peasant in factory hand stitch bon welt and factory glue it in place so it look like welt.

    Many place now glue and stitch gemming in place through insole and cover inside gem stitch by big long sock.
    U.k and U.S do it silly,
    they use glue.
    Asian country get good at gemming and do it better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012


  9. mcarthur

    mcarthur Senior member

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    [​IMG]
    cigar nst
    argyle otc
     


  10. isshinryu101

    isshinryu101 Senior member

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    GREAT POST, my friend!!!
     


  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Well, this is a problem that many of us in the Trade not only lament but work hard to counter. There is, was, and has been a standardized lexicon that doesn't really need regional variations or personal idiosyncrasies.

    Thornton calls Blake/Rapid "Fairstitched." I think I'll accept that and not try to invent yet another definition. Language is about communication...theoretically...and not greater and greater degrees of obfuscation.

    So...you think that adding a line of lightweight thread to hold canvas ribbing onto a thin paper of fiberboard insole (mostly for positioning purposes) is "do(ing) it better", do you?

    Seems to me it's just an overt acknowledgement of the essential problem.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012


  12. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    Me tell you in many year to come.
    See if it pass test of time.
    maker say it good,
    but me see one day if true.
    Me not convinced good yet,
    if glued gemming fail me think the fastener stitch put lot of pressure on canvass and tear through it soon after.
    Fiberboard insole never good,.
    Not all factory who stitch fastener use fiberboard but most would.
    Me think you right,
    you make sense.
    Fastener stitch not more solid if salt and water get in,
    it fail just as quick.
    Yes,
    you right me think.
    You make me see more sense,
    you very very good. :slayer:
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012


  13. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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    2011 was a rather busy year for me. Favs in bold

    • Alden Black Shell Captoe Boot Grant Last
    • Alden Black Shell PTB (Sold)
    • Alden for BB Black Shell (Sold)
    • Alden Color 8 Captoe
    • Alden Color 8 Wingtip
    • Alden Indy Black
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    • Alden Indy Tabacco Chamois
    • Alden Indy Cigar
    • Alden Ravello Wingtip Boot
    • Alden Ravello NST Boot
    • Alden Black Longwing
    • Alden White Chukka
    • Alden Kiltie Loafer (Sold)
    • Alden Kudu Wingtip Boot (Sold)
    • Alden Black Shell Chukka (Sold)
    • C&J for RL Cigar Darlton Wingtip x2 (Sold x1)
    • C&J for RL Cigar Marlow PTB
    • C&J for RL Cigar Loafer
    • C&J for RL Cigar Lindrick
    • C&J Cleveland Handgrade
    • C&J for BB Suede/Cordovan Saddle
    • C&J for BB Cordovan Boot
    • C&J Cottesmore Boot
    • C&J White Bucks (Sold)
    • C&J for RL Hallam (Sold)
    • Duckie Brown Ravello Cordovan Longwing
    • Gaziano & Girling Hayes (Sold)
    • Gaziano & Girling Wigmore
    • Grenson Sharp Navy Nubuck (Sold)
    • Heutchy Boot
    • John Lobb Keat Museum Calf
    • John Lobb William Black Calf
    • John Lobb William Buffalo Tan

    • John Lobb Ludlow Boot
    • Raf Simons Lace-Up
    • Paul Stuart for Grenson Masterpiece Balmoral Boot
    • Red Wing x2 (Sold x2)
    • RRL Canyon Boot
    • Trickers Suede Loafer
    • Trickers Suede Tassel Loafer
    • Trickers Stow (Sold)
    • Trickers Derby (Sold)
    • Viberg Suede Bobcats (Sold)
    • Wolverine 1000 Mile x2 (Sold x2)

    hoping these last me 75 years
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2012


  14. LynahFaithful

    LynahFaithful Senior member

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    GASP!! Has the shoe fairy met his match?
     


  15. Son Of Saphir

    Son Of Saphir Senior member

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    That many shoe you buy in one year.
    You plan to buy more pair this year?
    What you use to wear before you buy those shoe?
    Yes it easy to buy many many pair,
    you very very addicted,
    me very very addicted to. :nodding:
    Me buy many many pair once,
    you buy many many pair now. :nodding:
    All the shoe very very good.
     


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