Sport coats and trousers of all sorts - too dressy for jeans. And let's be honest - even though derbies with suits is technically not proper it is WIDELY done and I'm sure i'll do the same from time to time. Hell Parker was posting a bespoke suit with loafers over in WAYWRN this week to wide acclaim. I figure if all these young bucks think they can wear brown shoes out to dinner in the evenings I get away with a dressy derbie with a suit now again. I can get that they aren't everyone's cup of tea. But I'm having a hard time understanding the 'too much going on' part. They have far less detailing on them than a wingtip. Could you say more about that part?