Shoe construction oddity

[Schweino]

I got these Grenson Rose oxfords from Ebay and upon arrival I noticed the welt of one shoe is angled on the inside of the shoe. Also, the toe cap stitching has let loose at the exact same point as where the welt is angled.

I wondered what could have caused something like this (never seen it before) and if it the welt can be puled flat again when I have the shoes resoled (full resole). For pictures see http://imageshack.us/g/685/img01313201201151346.jpg/ or embedded pictures.

 

[cioni2k]

I'd be curious to know also. I picked up a pair of thrifted NOS Alden 905 captoes off SF, and it has this issue EVER so slightly. I can feel it a tiny bit when I walk, but its not noticeable to the eye.

 

[Son Of Saphir]



I got these Grenson Rose oxfords from Ebay and upon arrival I noticed the welt of one shoe is angled on the inside of the shoe. Also, the toe cap stitching has let loose at the exact same point as where the welt is angled.
I wondered what could have caused something like this (never seen it before) and if it the welt can be puled flat again when I have the shoes resoled (full resole). For pictures see http://imageshack.us/g/685/img01313201201151346.jpg/ or embedded pictures.

Welt can be fix easy.
Unstick it and glue it and sew it in right position should fix it,
but other thing can help fix it to if it need to.
Bad mistake on cap area,
he need concentrate more good.
The cause = bad workman who sloppy.

 

[Schweino]

Grenson Rose is made in the UK

 

[Son Of Saphir]



Grenson Rose is made in the UK

Yes,
me think of rushden range.
Sorry.
(me edit post)

 

[cioni2k]



Welt can be fix easy.
Unstick it and glue it and sew it in right position should fix it,
but other thing can help fix it to if it need to.
Bad mistake on cap area,
he need concentrate more good.
The cause = bad workman who sloppy and not train good.
lndia not good reputation,
they not invest money in good factory,
they invest money in middle rate factory,
owner cut many corner and buy old machinery and not get good teacher for factory and many worker not alway follow direction.
Many worker cut corner and try pass bad work when he not watched good.
India not good at the shoes,
it not good craftsman,
future in shoe making not sure,
China have much more promise.

Grenson Rose is made in England, not India. I don't suspect this is a poor workmanship / quality issue, it probably has a lot more to do with wear over time and the expansion or degradation of the leather used.

 

[Son Of Saphir]



Grenson Rose is made in England, not India. I don't suspect this is a poor workmanship / quality issue, it probably has a lot more to do with wear over time and the expansion or degradation of the leather used.

Forget post me do,
it bad post.
Me assume to much.
Me not see picture good so can make mistake.
You can be right.
Me forget it ebay shoe so man not own it new so me might be very wrong.
Me not think very good or read very good today,
me busy and rush and can make mistake here.
Me not like make mistake.
Me feel silly now grr

 

[cioni2k]



Forget post me do,
it bad post.
Me assume to much.
Me not see picture good so can make mistake.
You can be right.
Me forget it ebay shoe so man not own it new so me might be very wrong.
Me not think very good or read very good today,
me busy and rush and can make mistake here.
Me not like make mistake.
Me feel silly now grr

Lol its cool!

 

[Schweino]

it probably has a lot more to do with wear over time and the expansion or degradation of the leather used.

My thoughts exactly.

DWFII: care to share your thoughts? Ever seen anything like this?

It looks as if a part of the sole curved upwards.

 

[Dewey]

These are used shoes right?

 

[cioni2k]



These are used shoes right?

Well looking at the photos, they certainly aren't new

 

[Schweino]



These are used shoes right?

Yes, this is how they looked when bought (I stripped, cleaned and repolished them now):

http://www.auctiva.com/hostedimages...,535883294&formats=0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0&format=0

 

[DWFII]



[COLOR=0000FF]DWFII: care to share your thoughts? Ever seen anything like this?
It looks as if a part of the sole curved upwards[/COLOR].

I just saw this thread.

I wouldn't want to be held to this, esp. without being able to handle the shoe and examine it more closely but, since you asked, it looks like slipped gemming to me.

Of course most of the "gem failure deniers" on SF wouldn't understand what they were seeing and thus the legend of "long lasting," impeccable functionality (translated as "good enough for government work") is enhanced.

To be fair, I don't know how these shoes (this line of shoes) is made. It could also be a case of a cracked leather insole, if the insole is even leather. There was a time when manufacturers were experimenting with a machine that channeled a leather insole in a manner similar to what would be done by hand. I still see an occasional pair of "direct welted" boots ever now and again. But because companies are always looking to shave pennies, a slight decrease in the substance (thickness) of insole or the impulse to use a section of the hide that was just marginally thinner often results in the machine cutting the channel a little deeper than it was intended to do.

If the shoe is then treated badly or dried out too close to the fire...or even in some cases where the foot itself generates inordinate amounts of heat and/or salt...the insole will crack along the channel.

Of course, this can happen to hand welted insoles as well esp. with the push to lighter weight shoes (following the standards of manufactured shoes) and a general decline in the quality of insole shoulders due to a greater demand for marginal quality insoles that are perfectly fine for use with gemming.

If it's gemming slippage the chances are the shoe has been resoled and the repairman just got it wrong--didn't know where the gemming was supposed to go. If the insole has cracked, it might never have been.

And to be fair again, even if the shoe is gemmed on cheap leather or fiberboard insoles, the insole could still be cracked and separated.

 

[Son Of Saphir]



I wouldn't want to be held to this, esp. without being able to handle the shoe and examine it more closely but, since you asked, it looks like slipped gemming to me.

 

[Schweino]

[COLOR=0000FF]DWFII: care to share your thoughts? Ever seen anything like this?
It looks as if a part of the sole curved upwards[/COLOR].

I wouldn't want to be held to this, esp. without being able to handle the shoe and examine it more closely but, since you asked, it looks like slipped gemming to me.

Just what I expected, also thought it looked like as if the welt had come loose.

The insole is okay by the way, the shoes are perfectly wearable. These shoes have fully leather insoles too.

About a possible resole fault: these shoes are still on their original Grenson branded soles, I don't think they ever had a resole.