shoe construction...behind the veil

[NORE]

Do the insoles say England whereas the label says Italy?

 

[edmorel]



Do the insoles say England whereas the label says Italy?

no Monty is just showing a similar CH label. This whole gemming thing has gotten so ridiculous.

 

[NORE]

Agreed. I loves me some gemmed shoes.

 

[Xenon]



no Monty is just showing a similar CH label. This whole gemming thing has gotten so ridiculous.

Yes and no as it seems the point still isn't getting across.

1)If cements/adhesives are so good now why aren't the bespke models of these manufacturers gemmed. Nostalgia maybe?
2)If cements/adhesives are so good now why even bother with goodyear stitching and all, just cement the whole sole, less fuss, like the vast majority of shoes sold everywhere. In fact most cobblers now are far more adept with cements than stitching so resoling would be no different.

 

[edmorel]



Yes and no as it seems the point still isn't getting across.
1)If cements/adhesives are so good now why aren't the bespke models of these manufacturers gemmed. Nostalgia maybe?
2)If cements/adhesives are so good now why even bother with goodyear stitching and all, just cement the whole sole, less fuss, like the vast majority of shoes sold everywhere. In fact most cobblers now are far more adept with cements than stitching so resoling would be no different.

No, I think the point is that the point has gotten across (cement is inherently inferior to stitching) but the anti-gemming contigent feels a need to continue this battle, which no one else is fighting. Yes, Edward Green shoes have gemming. Yes, if they were hand welted they would not suffer a slipped gem. No this does not happen often and no, for the most part, no one (gemmed shoe wearers) cares.

 

[NORE]

Agreed. I loves me some gemmed shoes.

 

[SHS]



Yes and no as it seems the point still isn't getting across.
1)If cements/adhesives are so good now why aren't the bespke models of these manufacturers gemmed. Nostalgia maybe?
2)If cements/adhesives are so good now why even bother with goodyear stitching and all, just cement the whole sole, less fuss, like the vast majority of shoes sold everywhere. In fact most cobblers now are far more adept with cements than stitching so resoling would be no different.

I guess GY-welting shoes instead of cementing them makes it easier to put on a brand new sole when the time comes?

 

[hendrix]



No, I think the point is that the point has gotten across (cement is inherently inferior to stitching) but the anti-gemming contigent feels a need to continue this battle, which no one else is fighting. Yes, Edward Green shoes have gemming. Yes, if they were hand welted they would not suffer a slipped gem. No this does not happen often and no, for the most part, no one (gemmed shoe wearers) cares.

The debate stems more from how sensitive some of the fanboys are.

For example, in the Meermin thread, someone said that Meermin LM are handwelted and therefore better constructed than Edward Green.
Immediately out come the sympathisers talking about "finishing" and "softer leather" etc.


What do you want us to say? Would they prefer that we pat them on the head and lie?
"There there, doesn't mean anything at all, in fact your shoes are better made than anything and their quality better than an Airbus?"

There is no debate. Properly handwelted shoes are better than gemmed.

There is no need to be a sympathiser.

 

[edmorel]

^^

Can't speak to EG fanboys as I am not one but I have no issues with GY welted shoes.

Don't know anything about Meermin but I thought they were GY welted? Aren't they like 350-400? Can't see how you can hand welt shoes at that price.

 

[justsayno]

What about Carmina? Are they hand welted?

 

[hendrix]



^^
Can't speak to EG fanboys as I am not one but I have no issues with GY welted shoes.
Don't know anything about Meermin but I thought they were GY welted? Aren't they like 350-400? Can't see how you can hand welt shoes at that price.

I don't have an issue with GY welted shoes either, but to deny that it's a pretty objective indicator of construction is, well, denial.

Yeah apparently the linea maestro is around that price and are hand welted. There is video evidence and a very clear description.

I don't have a pair myself (or a pair of EGs) but I get frustrated when people would prefer to be ignorant or just plain sensitive about their material possessions.

 

[chogall]

^^
Can't speak to EG fanboys as I am not one but I have no issues with GY welted shoes.
Don't know anything about Meermin but I thought they were GY welted? Aren't they like 350-400? Can't see how you can hand welt shoes at that price.

Meermin has two lines, Classic is GY welted, Linea Maestro is hand welted.

There are plenty of Chinese guys that can hand welt shoes under that price. And communication/shipping difficulties aside, Vass price in EUR is like what, EUR 400?

 

[Gdot]



What about Carmina? Are they hand welted?

Nope. Goodyear and gemmed.

FYI - ALL English RTW shoes which are goodyear welted are gemmed. Handwelted is strictly the domain of some MTO and bespoke amongst all of the English shoe makers.

The same is true for the Spanish, ie: Carmina and Meermin.

 

[Gdot]



Meermin has two lines, Classic is GY welted, Linea Maestro is hand welted.

There are plenty of Chinese guys that can hand welt shoes under that price.  And communication/shipping difficulties aside, Vass price in EUR is like what, EUR 400?

Although I've not seen any examples which I would actually wear. As the only examples I've seen on the forums look remarkably unshapely and poorly detailed.

Vass does indeed offer an incredible value for a handwelted (and pegged) shoe. They are currently increasing production and opening a new retail store. I hope that the increased pressures of commercial success do not cause them to start taking shortcuts.

 

[hendrix]

^never seen a pegged Vass.

Honestly it's not even an issue of price. Exchange rates and fucked up economies mean you're always going to be able to get something cheaper.
Put it this way; I am someone who will buy a fused jacket if it looks good and works with the design. i wear sneakers 2-3 days a week.
I'm not a snob. I don't care about Meermin or EG or any other shoe brand that i'm not going to buy from. I have gemmed shoes, I have handwelted. I'm not going to throw out my gemmed ones.

It's also not about saying "this shoe is better than that shoe". But if someone asks to compare the construction of two different shoe brands, do you want me to ignore the fact that one is gemmed? Would you expect that I just leave out this piece of information to appease the people that can't bear to think that there's anything inferior about the shoes they like/own?

This is a forum in which we have some very knowledgeable tailors who have gone to lengths to dissect suits and compare construction. Should we ignore what they say because someone likes their RLPL suit? Should the truth make that person suddenly not like their suit as much?

One method is better. No debate. Reality.