shoe construction...behind the veil

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by DWFII, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Proof that despite the photos...it cannot happen.

    At least not without offending someone.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015


  2. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I don't know of any specific product made for filling. Even if there is one we wouldn't have any use for it. As mentioned this only happened once to my knowledge. It was corrected and the shoe never returned with a problem. It's the same idea of a loose -or- stripped screw in a door jam hinge. You remove the screw add some cement and drive some wood scraps into the hole. Let it dry and replace the screw. One can replace the entire jam but, is it necessary, overkill? On something as minor as this (replacing a screw in a leather toe plate) the hole can be packed the a lemon wood peg and all purpose cement. When the cement dries install a new screw. Cork filler is to soft. I wouldn't trust it to hold.

    No doubt if the screw damages the inseam (hand welted or not) it could cause the welt to pull away from the upper. Then the only way to correct it would be to replace the sole and, maybe the welt. Just that I've never seen this happen to a job we did before. If anyone has experienced that please share and let us know who did the job.
     


  3. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    Thanks for the feedback!
     


  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    I've used Gorilla glue to lock screws into felt on wading shoes...even using old holes. And suspect it would work wonderfully with leather.

    But with loose screws One always has to wonder about first causes. And tip-toe around unpalatable truths.

    [​IMG]

    BTW, this outsole will never wear out.

    (And FWIW, the outseam is fake--it's a cement job.)

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015


  5. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Well if it works for you continue using it. I would never apply it to leather though.....It's not as flexible as other available solutions.
    It will dry out the leather and MAY eventually cause it to crack. Then you have a bigger problem. I understand that it's very effective on certain materials and esp. when the components are being exposed to lot's of moisture or water conditions.

    I wouldn't use it on a customer's high-grade shoe though.....
     


  6. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    Not what I'm saying as someone can always do a crap job, just adding a data point
     


  7. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    I have no idea if screw fell out (when done correctly) is a 1 in 2 or 1 in 1000 event, to us end user that is probably what matters (setting the damage issue aside for now as I just don't know)
     


  8. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Gorilla glue is extremely flexible as the usage in the photo would indicate. The felt flexes at least as much as leather and yet the glue remains in place...despite the extreme leverage that the cleats place on the screws.

    Sometimes if not used judiciously and with deliberation, glue will expand out of the hole where it will set up. (You can see some residue from an earlier experiment around the "caulks" in the waist in the photo.) Where it can be examined both with the eye and with a pen knife or a fingernail. It's a simple procedure really and will reveal that it remains slightly soft and flexible even several years down the road.

    The photo is, of course, another real life example of a job that I did myself--in this case, for myself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015


  9. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Fair point but, as mentioned we have done thousands of these. And, to my knowledge one screw failed. Consider each plate averages 5 screws that averages 10 screws per pair. 10 screws per pair on only 1000 pair equals 10,000 hand fitted screws. So, what is the probability that a screw will fail? Multiply that by over a thousand pair done. Of course everybody has the right to analyze. They even have the right to over-analyze. But, if you want to play fair in disputing the discussion you have to heavily weight the reality in order to come to a realistic conclusion. Add to that not one inseam failed. I have asked if anyone experienced such failures that they tell us. And tell us who did the job.

    You can rely on theory or reality. Thats up to you....
     


  10. Nick V.

    Nick V. Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Fair nuff. Would you use Gorilla glue on a bespoke boot that you made for one of you're clients? Even as a quick-fix?
    Just asking......
     


  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Why would I need to?

    I don't offer metal toe plates.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2015


  12. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    well mine (job done by you guys) hasn't fell off, so far so good. I trust your sample is larger than most of us for sure.
     


  13. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Even Jun Kuwana, who might well have the largest shoe collection in the world (55+ bespoke pairs), suffers from excessive wear at the toes.

    http://www.styleforum.net/t/501277/now-thats-what-i-call-obsessive


    Here is a recent entry on his instagram page:

    https://instagram.com/not_fashion_but_style/

    Foster & Son (no doubt, one of the finest shoemakers in the world) had no hesitation to fix a pair of “Lulus”, even as an afterthought and repair.
     


  14. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Even Jun Kuwana, who might well have the largest shoe collection in the world (55+ bespoke pairs), suffers from excessive wear at the toes.

    http://www.styleforum.net/t/501277/now-thats-what-i-call-obsessive


    Here is a recent entry on his instagram page:

    https://instagram.com/not_fashion_but_style/

    Foster & Son (no doubt, one of the finest shoemakers in the world) had no hesitation to fix a pair of “Lulus”, even as an afterthought and repair.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015


  15. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    So what?! A similar comment could be made about brass nails. Both Marquess and Koki Suzuki apparently prefer brass nails to metal toe plates. I think it's just a difference in perspective.

    I readily admit that metal toe plates prevent wear. I've said as much clearly and unequivocally many times. Redacting or ignoring those remarks won't change them. But a full metal bottom will prevent the outsole from wearing out too. Why stop at the toe?

    I've also said that I believe that if the toe wears down excessively, it is often due to a poor fit or the idiosyncrasies of gait. Or perhaps even too little toe spring. It is not a universal problem, IMO. I've never worn my own toes down excessively and never had a shoe or boot customer request them after the fact.

    I cannot speak for anyone else but I have no desire...and see no need, financial or otherwise...to mod a well made shoe. I don't care about the money to be made adding toe plates. My drive is to make the shoe in such a way as to not require "add-ons." To anticipate possible problems and do everything in my power to address them before they happen. From my perspective the HW shoe is "perfect" the way it is. It is functioning as it is suppose to even when the toe does wear down.

    This endless "fiddling" with the shoe may make it feel more personal to the customer...esp. if they are willing to own up to the end result, both good and bad. But from my point of view it's mostly unneeded--an answer to a question that not only didn't need to be asked but which already had an answer derived from ten thousand of years of evolution.

    edited for punctuation and clarity
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2015


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