shoe construction...behind the veil

[DWFII]



You have pegs coming out, but not metal toe plate screws? I've never had a peg come out, but screws routinely fall out of my metal toe plates. In fact, look at the pair I am wearing right now...

Look closely at that photo...look where the outsole stitching is.

How can the screws not be hitting the inseam?

 

[DWFII]



I never gave much thought to metal toe taps and it never bothered me that the nails would come out as long as the tap remains there. Maybe I'll try some nails in the future.

I doubt toe plate nails will work the way you want them to...simply because there isn't enough substance to hold the nail and the plate unless the nail is "clinched" on the last or on the metal of a repair jack. In either case, the nail must come all the way through to the inside of the shoe.

Additionally, if the shank of the nail isn't the same diameter as the hole in the plate...which has been cut for screws...the plate will "work" and come off prematurely. .

 

[patrickBOOTH]



Seems like Saint Crispins not only have this pegging problem but also have this toe plate mounting problem.

Never have lost screws happen to my SC, Vass, Meermin, or JL.

Maybe mount with 1/4" brass tacks?

You just have some weird thing against Saint Crispins. This happens to all of my shoes.

 

[patrickBOOTH]



I doubt toe plate nails will work the way you want them to...simply because there isn't enough substance to hold the nail and the plate unless the nail is "clinched" on the last or on the metal of a repair jack. In either case, the nail must come all the way through to the inside of the shoe.

Additionally, if the shank of the nail isn't the same diameter as the hole in the plate...which has been cut for screws...the plate will "work" and come off prematurely. .

I meant tacks, in lieu of a metal plate.

 

[VRaivio]

I hate nails on the outsole because they're never struck at the very end where I need protection. Brass, metal, or rubber toe guards do the job that I need. I always remove sole nails and have guards attached instead.

 

[DWFII]



I meant tacks, in lieu of a metal plate.

sorry, my bad.

I am not sure of the nomenclature but "tacks" are relatively flimsy in my lexicon. When I buy them I am buying "brads" or nails. And make sure you get solid brass...brass plated doesn't guarantee that the nails won't rust and burn the leather.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I remember Manton told me that he sent his John Lobb Paris bespoke shoes back to have metal plates installed and they charged him 350 euros to do it. I wonder if they do it with more French finesse.

 

[chogall]

I remember Manton told me that he sent his John Lobb Paris bespoke shoes back to have metal plates installed and they charged him 350 euros to do it. I wonder if they do it with more French finesse.

Interesting. They charged me 0 Zeros for mine.

 

[bengal-stripe]



I meant tacks, in lieu of a metal plate.

Up to 50 or so years ago, bespoke shoes and superior ready-to-wear shoes would have had all-leather top-lifts. To prevent them wearing down too quickly, a large row of nails were put all around the heel (sometimes an additional second row was placed on the back).

Nevertheless, despite the nails, these heels wore down very quickly. In the 60s the top-lifts with the rubber corner, which we know today were introduced and have become the standard since. In the late 90s, RLPL tried to revive those all-leather-lot-of-nails heels and had EG make the Purple Label range this way. I had one of those pairs, after two or three weeks I needed the top-lift replaced with a conventional leather/rubber one, as I was already 'down at heel'.

I have my serious doubts if those flimsy nails will solve the problem of excessive toe wear, particular as they usually are placed far too back to serve any serious purpose.

 

[chogall]

You just have some weird thing against Saint Crispins. This happens to all of my shoes.

Nothing against them. Just stating facts.

 

[patrickBOOTH]



Interesting.  They charged me 0 Zeros for mine.

It was a long time ago, also if you got them installed upon ordering maybe it was baked into the cost and you didn't realize.

 

[patrickBOOTH]



Up to 50 or so years ago, bespoke shoes and superior ready-to-wear shoes would have had all-leather top-lifts. To prevent them wearing down too quickly, a large row of nails were put all around the heel (sometimes an additional second row was placed on the back).

Nevertheless, despite the nails, these heels wore down very quickly. In the 60s the top-lifts with the rubber corner, which we know today were introduced and have become the standard since. In the late 90s, RLPL tried to revive those all-leather-lot-of-nails heels and had EG make the Purple Label range this way. I had one of those pairs, after two or three weeks I needed the top-lift replaced with a conventional leather/rubber one, as I was already 'down at heel'.

I have my serious doubts if those flimsy nails will solve the problem of excessive toe wear, particular as they usually are placed far too back to serve any serious purpose.

A friend has this pair of longwing "V-cleats" and this little metal V shaped thing in the back made him slip and slide like there was no tomorrow.

 

[DWFII]



Up to 50 or so years ago, bespoke shoes and superior ready-to-wear shoes would have had all-leather top-lifts. To prevent them wearing down too quickly, a large row of nails were put all around the heel (sometimes an additional second row was placed on the back).



Nevertheless, despite the nails, these heels wore down very quickly. In the 60s the top-lifts with the rubber corner, which we know today were introduced and have become the standard since. In the late 90s, RLPL tried to revive those all-leather-lot-of-nails heels and had EG make the Purple Label range this way. I had one of those pairs, after two or three weeks I needed the top-lift replaced with a conventional leather/rubber one, as I was already 'down at heel'.

I have my serious doubts if those flimsy nails will solve the problem of excessive toe wear, particular as they usually are placed far too back to serve any serious purpose.

Well, I remember them too and I also owned shoes like them. Later on, I made heels with leather toplifts and nails .

There's two issues that bear on this--first, the human foot strikes on the heel with tremendous force. I don't know what it is for men but IIRC correctly a woman in high heels hits the pavement with an equivalent force, per square inch, as the Empire State building.

And second, a lot of it has to do with the leather. I won't say it is the whole answer but I used to make leather toplifts out of a special Austrian leather made esp. for logging boots ...back when logging caulks were driven in and had to hold in the leather outsole. I always thought...back then...that these leather toplifts lasted significantly better than toplifts made out of simple outsoling.

And since then I have occasionally wondered which was worse--the rubber wearing down and throwing the shoe and the foot off balance or the leather wearing down around the nails but preserving the height and level of the heel ...albeit in one hell of a slippery condition esp. on pavement.

I'm not sure there is a good answer...at least not the answer that people here seem to be seeking.

That said...and coming under the heading of understanding your materials again...brass nails are not as hard as iron or steel and while they will slow down the rate at which leather wears they won't outwear the leather to the point where you're walking more on the metal than on leather. Because it's more malleable, brass won't ever be anywhere near slippery as iron--nails, V-plates or toe or heel plates.

edited for punctuation and clarity

 

[chogall]



A friend has this pair of longwing "V-cleats" and this little metal V shaped thing in the back made him slip and slide like there was no tomorrow.

He doesn't know how to walk.

Or skate.

 

[chogall]



Well, I remember them too and I also owned shoes like them. Later on, I made heels with leather toplifts and nails .

There's two issues that bear on this--first, the human foot strikes on the heel with tremendous force. I don't know what it is for men but IIRC correctly a woman in high heels hits the pavement with an equivalent force, per square inch, as the Empire State building.

And second, a lot of it has to do with the leather. I won't say it is the whole answer but I used to make leather toplifts out of a special Austrian leather made esp. for logging boots ...back when logging caulks were driven in and had to hold in the leather outsole. I always thought...back then...that these leather toplifts lasted significantly better than toplifts made out of simple outsoling.

And since then I have occasionally wondered which was worse--the rubber wearing down and throwing the shoe and the foot off balance or the leather wearing down around the nails but preserving the height and level of the heel ...albeit in one hell of a slippery condition esp. on pavement.

I'm not sure there is a good answer...at least not the answer that people here seem to be seeking.

That said...and coming under the heading of understanding your materials again...brass nails are not as hard as iron or steel and while they will slow down the rate at which leather wears they won't outwear the leather to the point where you're walking more on the metal than on leather. Because it's more malleable, brass won't ever be anywhere near slippery as iron--nails, V-plates or toe or heel plates.

edited for punctuation and clarity

Metals got worn down too. I had a pair of v cleats and the metal got shortened and deformed when worn. Thus they 'throw shoes off balance' as much as combination rubber top lifts.

Regarding pressure, rough numbers reasonable assumptions, lady with heels applies 4300 kPa to the ground while gent applies 140 kPa to ground. Pressure = force / area. Too lazy to find weight and area of Empire State Building.