shoe construction...behind the veil

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by DWFII, Jul 24, 2010.

  1. eljimberino

    eljimberino Senior member

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    Great. I'll try the brass toe nails in the future. I note Zonkey provide them as standard. Thank you for the responses.
     
  2. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    The insole thickness on those Norvegese's certainly does look impressive. Can you comment on those? They look nearly identical in thickness and density to the actual outsoles (I know that a photo can only say so much). In other words, how soft are they in relation to what is commonly used for insoling, given that there isn't going to be any give underneath? Have you been seeing a decent footbed formation on those, or are they quite hard?
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  3. Fred G. Unn

    Fred G. Unn Senior member

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    This is very common for Vass to do as well. If you look at the Vass models that NMWA carries I believe they all have brass nails at the toe.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  4. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    It's not my deal but from what i can see in the photo and from what I know of Norvegese, it's fundamentally the same technique as handwelted...sans welt. There's an inseam that is anchored in a channeled insole...so theoretically at least the criteia for choosing an insole would be much the same as for HW.
     
  5. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    Nice, I hadn't known that specifically.

    Two rows might "double your pleasure, double your fun."
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  6. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    Yeah, that makes perfect sense. It's really just Ron's specific example I'm curious about. I'd love a shoe that is substantial as what that looks to be. But I wouldn't want to feel like my feet were resting on the same firmness as an outsole.
     
  7. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    Speaking of screws damaging the shoe (potentially), I'd refer everyone back to that St. Crispin's "The Complete Process" video on youtube, for an interesting observation.

    Watch when the metal toe plate is installed... they use an electric screwdriver, and the guy keeps drilling for multiple rotations after the screw is flush. Now, I've never done this on a pair of shoes, but I have screwed in my share of screws in soft materials such as drywall or certain woods. I know that if the screw is spinning after it is flush, it is no longer behaving like a screw, but is now acting like an auger. In other words, the leather is being stripped out and damaged. Take that observation for what it's worth...
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  8. diadem

    diadem Senior member

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    Yup, I like the idea of two rows more. Will be interesting to see if makers start charging for this, though, if more and more clients start requesting this and makers see it as trying to circumvent the upcharge for having metal toe taps installed... Marquess [​IMG] Koji Suzuki [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  9. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Leather is a fibrous material. Wood is not.

    That bit of extra drilling might have just secured the screw further by twisting more fibers around the threads.

    So far I have never had any loose toe plate screws or dismounting caused by that, if that is what you are trying to imply. Oldest pair with toe plates is 10 years old.

    Or you could ask Nick; he probably seen way more toe plate installs and repairs than anyone else on this forum. His observation sample size should be large enough.
     
  10. MoneyWellSpent

    MoneyWellSpent Senior member

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    I'm really not trying to imply much. Just observing is all.

    That said, while they are certainly different, wood is a fibrous material.

    But, regardless of the differences in physical make up, leather fibers are not going to behave as you postulate, by "twisting more fibers" around the screw. The screw will destroy the leather if a screw is over tightenened. The leather doesn't suddenly behave like octopus tentacles.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  11. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    :fonz:

    Spot on. The fibers get cut, is all. And since leather fibers are less dense than wood fibers they cut easier.

    And even if the leather doesn't get chewed up the inseam is often damaged.

    Every screw is a spiral blade.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  12. DWFII

    DWFII Bespoke Boot and Shoemaker Dubiously Honored

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    You don't know what you're talking about.
     
  13. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You have pegs coming out, but not metal toe plate screws? I've never had a peg come out, but screws routinely fall out of my metal toe plates. In fact, look at the pair I am wearing right now...

    [​IMG]
     
  14. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I never gave much thought to metal toe taps and it never bothered me that the nails would come out as long as the tap remains there. Maybe I'll try some nails in the future.
     
  15. chogall

    chogall Senior member

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    Seems like Saint Crispins not only have this pegging problem but also have this toe plate mounting problem.

    Never have lost screws happen to my SC, Vass, Meermin, or JL.

    Maybe mount with 1/4" brass tacks?
     

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