shoe construction...behind the veil

[vmss]

I don't even consider glue construction worthy to be mentioned. We are talking about low-high end market. Both considered made in the USA mid level quality Allen Edmonds and Alden uses Goodyear construction.
When I lived in New York only Saks fifth avenue sold Santoni and Magnanni. Allen Edmonds was available almost on every block.

 

[Trqmaster]

New York rocks! I would say that area is definitely exclusive. There are so many different mid to high end shoe stores there it is nuts. In the DC area, I only know of 2 specialty shoe stores. Goodyear seems to be only found at saks, Nieman, and BB as the only more common places to find shoes with this construction. As for rapid and handwelted? Ha! I wish...

 

[traverscao]

New York rocks! I would say that area is definitely exclusive. There are so many different mid to high end shoe stores there it is nuts. In the DC area, I only know of 2 specialty shoe stores. Goodyear seems to be only found at saks, Nieman, and BB as the only more common places to find shoes with this construction. As for rapid and handwelted? Ha! I wish...

Have you visited Leffot and Epaulet NY?

 

[vmss]

I would like to know how as a consumer you can identify how the heel of a shoe maker is made.

I had read through this forum, that some heels are made of leather or fiberboard.

Hoe can one identify how a heel is made? How can you distinguish the difference between leather/fiberboard and leather heel stack?

Also if a shoes is the dove combination leather/rubber is that automatically a sign they are using leather stacked heel?

Does AE normal range/independence collection and carmina use leatherboard or leather stack leather heel? My normal AE collection heels look a bit different than my independence collection with the dove tail and my carmina heel looks on the surface very smooth, not sure of its leather stack heel.

 

[DWFII]



I would like to know how as a consumer you can identify how the heel of a shoe maker is made.

I had read through this forum, that some heels are made of leather or fiberboard.

Hoe can one identify how a heel is made? How can you distinguish the difference between leather/fiberboard and leather heel stack?

Also if a shoes is the dove combination leather/rubber is that automatically a sign they are using leather stacked heel?

Does AE normal range/independence collection and carmina use leatherboard or leather stack leather heel? My normal AE collection heels look a bit different than my independence collection with the dove tail and my carmina heel looks on the surface very smooth, not sure of its leather stack heel.

Sometimes you cannot tell the difference esp. if the base is black. Sometimes heel bases are made up of alternating layers of leather and fiberboard.

Does a combination rubber/leather toplift indicate a stacked leather heel? It's by no means definitive, but it is a good indicator. Why waste a premium toplift on an inferior heel base?

Like much else, none of this really signifies much, however. Most manufacturers are buying their heel bases in volume and already stacked. Invariably the individual layers (lifts) are really...and I mean really...marginal or poor quality leather. These lifts are taken from whatever is left over after the manufacturer has taken every strap of grade 1, grade 2, and grade 3 out of the hide and rejected the rest as un-usable for outsoles. And they are usually pinned/nailed/stapled together and often mechanically nailed on the sole as a unit.

As such they are seldom leveled individually...and may present problems for anyone trying to balance the heel after the fact.

And BTW, in lower end shoes...say under $500.00... the chances of a fiberboard or even a plastic heel base go up.

 

[vmss]

"Why waste a premium toplift on an inferior heel base?"

Does the dove tail combination rubber/heel have any advantage over full rubber?

 

[DWFII]



"Why waste a premium toplift on an inferior heel base?"

Does the dove tail combination rubber/heel have any advantage over full rubber?

Truth to tell...all other things being equal...no. It may even suffer, in some people's opinions, simply in terms of traction.

Usually when a full rubber heel is used on a man's shoe, however, it is somewhat thicker than the combi heel. As such it will probably wear longer before needing to be replaced.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I just want my leather to be happy on my foot.

 

[traverscao]

It takes a lot for the material to just even be calm, init?

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I know we have waxed poetic about these topics over and over again, but I want to suggest, or even play the devil's advocate on something. We say when resoling a shoe it is best to have the original last. We also say that hand welted shoes is a superior construction to goodyear welted shoes and many others. I have noticed something though, when I get back factory recrafted shoes they tend to be tight. The footbed seems totally unaltered with no weird bumpiness, but they feel snug to the point that their breaking in and softening up had been restored to the original stiffness of the new shoe, sometimes stiffer. So my question is if a shoe is relasted it pulls out the wrinkles and tightens the shoe past the point that it was originally lasted when new because the leather has stretched with wear and broken in. Now the shoe has less room to stretch and break back in because it might be pulled to its limits. Does this make sense? If so, why is using the original last appropriate? Now, I can see the argument being made for goodyear welted shoes due to the placement of the new gemming, (if there is new gemming even applied at the time of recraft) but for hand welted shoes my question is why is a last even needed? If stitches re-enter old holes in the insole and upper and a new welt is installed why do you even need a last? The shoe will be in the shape it was when originally lasted no? Does any of this make sense?

 

[traverscao]

I know we have waxed poetic about these topics over and over again, but I want to suggest, or even play the devil's advocate on something. We say when resoling a shoe it is best to have the original last. We also say that hand welted shoes is a superior construction to goodyear welted shoes and many others. I have noticed something though, when I get back factory recrafted shoes they tend to be tight. The footbed seems totally unaltered with no weird bumpiness, but they feel snug to the point that their breaking in and softening up had been restored to the original stiffness of the new shoe, sometimes stiffer. So my question is if a shoe is relasted it pulls out the wrinkles and tightens the shoe past the point that it was originally lasted when new because the leather has stretched with wear and broken in. Now the shoe has less room to stretch and break back in because it might be pulled to its limits. Does this make sense? If so, why is using the original last appropriate? Now, I can see the argument being made for goodyear welted shoes due to the placement of the new gemming, (if there is new gemming even applied at the time of recraft) but for hand welted shoes my question is why is a last even needed? If stitches re-enter old holes in the insole and upper and a new welt is installed why do you even need a last? The shoe will be in the shape it was when originally lasted no? Does any of this make sense?

Bolded section - that had never happened, Pat, unless it was the welt strip(s) you were talking about.

Other than that, installing the original last gives the shoe sufficient shapes and straighten the profile just so that the sole won't be curved with the crease, or so I would think.

 

[patrickBOOTH]

I think you're wrong about the bolded. Many high end makers replace gemming.

 

[traverscao]

I may stand corrected, but I was just thinking who would? It's a little foggy how one maker can replace the gemming.

 

[DWFII]

All other things being equal, hand welted shoes don't require the original last when being resoled even if large sections of welt need to be replaced. It's just as you suggest.

And again that's one of the intentional (?) design strengths that evolved as shoes evolved. It allows the local repairman...with no specialized tools, no specialized machines or materials...to resole/repair a handwelted shoe, no matter who made it or where it was made...without the original (or any) last.

PS: forgot to add that, No, the shoe won't be in the original shape or size when a handwelted shoe is resoled or repaired. It will be in the same shape and size as when you dropped it off for repair....unless you have blown out the inseam and continued to wear the shoe to the point it got distorted (but that's why I said "all other things being equal").

edited for punctuation and clarity

 

[traverscao]

One good side of looking at it, DW, especially when it comes to certain boots that would better remain creased. However, I figure the down side is that a whole lot of people prefer their shoes to look like "new" after a repair.