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shirt sleeves

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by zjpj83, Jan 26, 2005.

  1. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    My question is about shirt sleeves. The vented portion behind the cuff - my British shirts, especially T & A, have no buttons there - it just flaps open.

    When ordering bespoke, what would make you order one or the other? Why do some makers put buttons there and some don't?
     
  2. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Money.  It takes more work and uses more materials, bottom line.

    The button you describe is called a guantlet button.  It is not uncommon for them to be left off of barrel cuff shirts.  The thinking is that the button is meant to close the gauntlet so that bare forearm does not show.  This is less of a problem of barrel cuff shirts.  But the gauntlets of french (or double) cuff shirts tend to gape pretty regularly, so these should always take a button.

    Personally, I get all my bespoke shirts -- barrel and french cuff -- with gauntlet buttons.  I like the buttonholes to be horizontal, parallel to the shirt cuff buttonholes.
     
  3. Renault78law

    Renault78law Senior member

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    I like a button on the sleeve guantlet for a French cuff, and on barrel cuffs that feature a single button.

    I think they're a bit much on a two button cuff (or 3 button in the case of T&A).
     
  4. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    I don't know where you have been purchasing your bespoke shirts, because even my RTW H&K's are made in such a way that the arm does not show during normal use of the shirt. Granted, if I flailed my arms all over the place then yes, it would have a tendency to flap open and expose ones bare arms, but baring that I have yet to see flesh collar peeping out of my shirt. The same goes with my T&A's (MTM and RTW).

    Jon.
     
  5. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Jon: I don't know what to tell you.  Either you are very lucky, or the majority of guys without guantlet buttons are unlucky.  I see this problem on other guys all the time.  The vent is just too long to stay closed.  And unlike on barrel cuff shirts, there is no overlap at the french cuff to help it stay closed.

    Even if they did stay closed on their own, though, I would still get gauntlet buttons.  I just like the way they look.
     
  6. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    hey manton, every time I read something of yours I like my own clothing less and less. now I don't understand how I ever lived without gauntlet buttons. [​IMG]
     
  7. zjpj83

    zjpj83 Senior member

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    That was sort of what I was wondering - I am wearing a 3-button cuff T&A today, and the gauntlet does come open slightly when my elbow is bent. I was thinking what it would look like with a fourth button there and then wondering the pros and cons of having it there.

    Edit: I should note that I also have french cuff T&A shirts with no gauntlet button.
     
  8. Brian SD

    Brian SD Senior member

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    I'm with Manton. Even just resting my arm on a table I can feel my skin touching the surface without a gauntlet button. I always prefer to have them although I wear all RTW so its not like I have the option. It bothers me when shirts (especially dress shirts) do not have them.
     
  9. BjornH

    BjornH Senior member

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    If memory serves (I'm too tired to get up and check) my Sea Island T&A has a gauntlet button with a vertical buttonhole. The others don't and it bugs me. When this topic is aired I always recommend gauntlet buttons if, and only if, you are the type to remember to button them. I hate seeing them unbuttoned, even if I am sometimes guilty of this when dressing during an acute caffeine-pressure loss.

    B
     
  10. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Senior member

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    I have historically gone back and forth on this, but now favor always getting gauntlet buttons. My first Ascot Chang shirts were done with them by default, and for some reason I didn't like them and made subsequent orders without. Several years later I ordered more Chang shirts, on new measurements, and they left them off. I didn't like that and made them switch back. I'm not sure if they default one way or the other now, but it is something one should always consider when ordering shirts--don't assume you are getting gauntlet buttons unless you have verified it.

    I used to work with a guy who didn't button his gauntlet buttons or cuffs, and just walked around with his cuffs flopping around on his wrists--now THAT I hated to see.
     
  11. aybojs

    aybojs Senior member

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    Another important factor is the ability to roll up your sleeves, which I do very often (especially when wearing French cuff shirts casually). I typically fold the cuffs over twice and then button the gauntlet button to keep everything firm. Without a gauntlet button, the sleeves can feel overly loose and not hang properly when rolled up.

    I will always request a gauntlet button when ordering a shirt, and find that the shirts I do have that lack gauntlet buttons can be somewhat of a pain to wear.
     
  12. Nonk

    Nonk Senior member

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    Oh that I could afford bespoke shirts, but from my RTW experience I also prefer a button on the sleeve placket. I am visiting tomorrow, so to earn the discount I intend to propose to the proprietor, I should remind the forum that Clarke and Dawe shirts all come with such a button. [​IMG]
     
  13. bch

    bch Senior member

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    Ditto. The biggest downfall of the slim fitting, no-iron Brooks Brothers shirts (beside the too small by 1/4" collars) is the lack of gauntlet buttons.
     
  14. SartorialSplendour

    SartorialSplendour Member

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    I don't favor a guantlet button on French cuff shirts. And here is why. Yesterday I was wearing a blue french cuff shirt. Instead of a cufflink, I wore a dark blue silk knot. While I think the blue silk knot complements the shirt, it tended to make the white guantlet button seem like a mismatch. It caught my eye when I was getting dressed in the morning. I was almost tempted to cut the guantlet button off.
     
  15. Concordia

    Concordia Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You mean that you were really walking around without a jacket on? Â For shame. Â [​IMG] I used to think that gauntlet buttons were fussy, and my first shirts from my current regular maker didn't have them--- just shorter gauntlet. Â Then I decided that this was a bit sloppy, especially with double cufflinks with longer chains. So I had them lengthen the gauntlet and put buttons in. Â I also now do it on less formal shirts. I get button-downs from Brooks, and except for the fact that mine now more or less fit, the only way you can tell that they're not off the shelf is a gauntlet button.
     
  16. drljva

    drljva Senior member

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    I side with those that prefer to have a GB on their shirts. Just looks neater -- to my eyes anyway. The Charvet "house style", for example, does away with the GB (regardless of whether it's button-cuff or double-barrel -- read into that what you will, given the historical origins of the GB. ;-) [Why, then, Dunhill is eschewing the GB these days is beyond me.] Consequently, whenever I order MTM from Charvet, I always have to ask for the GB; they always frown at the request, and I always frown back at them. In the end, everyone is happy... [​IMG] JV
     
  17. retronotmetro

    retronotmetro Senior member

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    (aybojs @ Jan. 26 2005,16:04) Another important factor is the ability to roll up your sleeves, which I do very often (especially when wearing French cuff shirts casually). Â I typically fold the cuffs over twice and then button the gauntlet button to keep everything firm. Â Without a gauntlet button, the sleeves can feel overly loose and not hang properly when rolled up.
    Ditto. Â The biggest downfall of the slim fitting, no-iron Brooks Brothers shirts (beside the too small by 1/4" collars) is the lack of gauntlet buttons.
    The BB Luxury line shirts have gauntlet buttons, but you have to pay a handsome premium for those.
     
  18. stuarts8

    stuarts8 Senior member

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    I agree with Aybois. It is good to keep the French cuffs firm when the sleeves are rolled up. The gauntlet Button also holds the cufflinks securely in the cuffs when the sleeves are rolled up.(as you all know I like to leave the links in when I roll my sleeves up and so the Gauntlet button is an advantage here.)
    Cheers
    stuarts8
     
  19. jester

    jester Senior member

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    I also prefer gauntlet buttons on FC shirts (my button-cuff shirts are mostly BB oxfords, on which I don't want them). But I'm confused about the gauntlet-buttons-for-rolling-up-sleeves argument.

    If I roll my sleeves up one roll--i.e. I take out the cuff links and fold back one cuff-distance--that's fine, and the gauntlet button helps hold them there. But I'd rarely roll my sleeves this way--I usually go back several more folds, to just below the elbow (or above, depending on what I'm doing). And for this, I'd have to undo the gauntlet button or it would be too tight.

    I don't think I have unusually muscular forearms, so are people talking about keeping the gauntlet buttons buttoned for a single-roll rollup, or, well, am I Popeye?
     
  20. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Jester: I think the argument is that the vent or placket on sleeves with gauntlet buttons tends to be longer, allowing you more freedom to roll up the sleeve. Most shirtmakers, if they're not using a gauntlet button, will make that vent as short as possible, since there's no button to prevent it from gaping open. The longer it is, the more it needs that button. Conversely, if it has a gauntlet button, the vent can be and often is made a little longer.
     

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