1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

shirt shrinkage

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by afaludi, Oct 9, 2007.

  1. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    999
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    What does the shrinkage is the mechanical movement on the drum of the washing machine that compacts the wave, even it comes mercericed. ( I have been teached, not that i got any degree in textiles) but never occured me on the real good ones, only on a test with hot water ( and was a poor fabric)

    Canclini seems done in ex soviet republics as Romania ( maybe Czech Republic? as you said) or close and Monti does in Italy the good products( that i know, maybe even not ) and outside the average.

    Cheers
     
  2. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    FWIW, I hate fabrics over 120/2 or whatever. They feel nice, but they don't hold up as well. I'll take 80/3 anyday over that luxe stuff.
     
  3. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    999
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013

    What is 80/ three ply? Do you mean /2?

    No offense, but normal it does shrinks, that is a poor cotton that no good Neapolitan shirt maker uses. It bytes as hell on the skin and cost a few euros.

    120 is the minimun we use for bespoke, being mainly 170 and 200, incluiding Riva most of the time.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  4. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    Just because it isn't super smooth doesn't mean it is "poor". What is your criteria for "poor"? It seems like to you it means soft. To me those superfine cloths are poor because they aren't durable in the least. Cheap cloth and shrinkage I don't think are necessarily correlated.
     
  5. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    Anything over 120 is bullshit, imo. Sounds like you're just trying to upsell.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2015
  6. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    3,335
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Location:
    NYC
    3 ply construction is quite rare.
    Alumo makes triplo
    years ago I had a pinpoint oxford from japan that was 3/120 x 2/80
    odd construction , but it was durable yet softer.

    i like 120/2 for a basic shirt.
    I doubt Riva is finishing their fabrics with resins, to make the fabric slick feeling.
    albini has a quality called Piuma it is a 70/1 compact yarn(very dense construction)
    but it is finished with a lot of resin, I do not like it, but it is popular.
    140/2-200/2 can be nice, but you lose longevity of the shirt with the finer yarns.

    and the new compact yarn construction is prone to stretching in commercial laundries
     
  7. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    999
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013

    Without arguing, i do not know if your message is trolling or on the contrary puts on evidence your totally lack of knowledge of the industry but just an attempt to attack me.

    The Neapolitan shirtmakers have been using 170/2 and over way since those were on the market and as Riva, are way before i was born, same about other shirtmakers based in NYC.

    I could have gone London or other world city since I am not Neapolitan but choose( and got the luck of being accepted as if a was a family member) to be here with what i consider are the best alive in the world.

    Waste of time and energy to have people as that bullshiting a forum and trying to offend others. Well, people do not like the truth, and the quality, here another example.

    Last, i do not get any cent charged to the fabrics. So i earn the same, only for doing a shirt, even i do a 100/2 that a 330 ( that sure exist but is not the ultimate) ( so again you are wrong on ; "Sounds like you're just trying to upsell"

    So, as i knew the offender poster who i answered before got any idea about.

    The only 3 ply fabric i have seen was that Alumo, never used it but a client of mine told me was poor to perspirate. Too dense.

    I have also heard about 4 ply for wool, but never seen it. I have low knowledge about wool anyway.

    The other came the Grandi & Rubinelli comercial visited us to bring us the new coffin ( 7 kilos, so bad for a trunk show taking it on a plane), it was different than the book i got personally on their factory a few years ago that is a document folder like. 2 or 3 kilos.

    We curiously talked about Albini, as he worked there for years and agreed on what you and also me say, Albini ( Thomas Mason) fabrics feels as a plastic bag and are too compacted.

    He told me " gum" ( used that word) was added on the finishing among tons of ammoniacal. I never thought " plastic" was used for real, only thought was a coincidence on the feeling, but i was wrong.

    I never liked Albini/ Mason, jus like a few top line DJ Anderson that also are overpriced compared to similar( and better) products as Monti 170-200 etc.. There is another called Albini called Piumino 100 or 120 that imitates Alumo 120 but feels plasticon the contrary. Cost 10 euros less, so has a lot of commercial success around.

    A customer who asks 200/2 fabrics do wash them by machine and with agressive detergent, and maybe even on driers, OMG? Then as you say, the shirt is not going to last. Is like washing a Maserati or similar on an automatic gas station wash, the paint is gonna be destroyed inmediately.


    Albini agent ( not this, but an agent, as bad as most country agents are, those who got any idea but want an % added for doing nothing as resending an email order to the factory) asked for my private client list. Can you believe it? I said the spirit of Ronald Reagan and tomorrow comes the Sultan of Brunei, then denunced her to Albini headquarters for being against the basic ethic and law ( European Data Protection law) so i do not work with Albini. Anyway, only wanted the DJ Anderson book, but told me i should pay 750 for the full awful Mason books instead with 60 to 100 fabrics mainly, so told them i do not use them, no way.
    Poor not on the price cost, but poor on quality. Not soft related, is simply low to average quality, and not the fabric that should be used to do a tons of hours of work by hand. A 3 cilinder engine. Takes you back home, low gas consume, but is not anything that people desires to have ( or at least me) sure better than walking on a rainy day but i won't call them " bullshit" as you said about top fabrics.

    Cheap cloth and shirkage are not necessariley correlated, sure, but sadly most of the cases are. Same as the most expensive shirting, DJ Anderson on this case, is not the best, as their agressive marketing says.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  8. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    

    Ironic considering much all of your blather on Style Forum is pompous and didactic.
     
  9. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    Acorn Cambridge is 80/3. I have many shirts made with it. There are threads (pun intended) about how Riva cotton shirts have fallen apart. They aren't durable, so by my criteria, they are garbage. Also by your, and other's criteria of "poor" being that poor quality shirting shrinks my initial post was stating how my new shirts haven't shrunk. So are they still poor in your eyes? Guess what? They are 100/2 and will withstand more wearings than your silky smooth Riva nonsense.
     
  10. Shirtmaven

    Shirtmaven Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    3,335
    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2003
    Location:
    NYC
    The rubinelli coffin is a fine in the shop. not to travel with.

    gum=resins. same thing
    most mills(not riva which is cottage industry, nor alumo) use Resins/gums to a certain extent.
    the thomas mason fabric used by J. Crew does not have resins. , it also seems to have a lighter construction then normal. the enzyme wash, post shirt production,
    is the reason the shirt feels like you have had it for years.


    I like the triplo. i made myself one shirt in white
    I don't wear white shirts all that often, so I do not have much of an opinion. i think i wore it once.

    80/3 is an odd construction for an oxford cloth.
    I won't go near Acorn fabrics, for a variety of reasons that i have expressed elsewhere on this forum.

    I have an older shirt made from Ferno 100/2 that feels better with age. very natural finish.

    I prefer a slightly denser lower yarn count myself.
    Rubenilli produces an 80/2 pinpoint weave that feels great.
    they start with high quality yarns.

    FYI, My low priced fabric importing friend had brought in fabric from china.
    the customers loved it because it did not wrinkle.
    we found out later, it had been coated with a thin layer of plastic pellets.
     
  11. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    The recent shirts I got are Rubinelli. I think they are a fantastic value. I used to wear a lot of Acorn, but I don't think they delivered any more quality than their price dictated. IIRC, that was your opinion as well.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  12. spiermackay

    spiermackay Senior member Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    1,891
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Location:
    Toronto, CA
    Wow, this thread got heated fast.

    All 100% Cotton shirting will shrink. Some less than others. Some less than 1%, but almost always greater than 0.

    Cotton, in it's natural state is in a ball full of tiny kinks. That just the structure of the fibre. Cotton fibres are always trying to get back to this natural state.

    A good analogy is hair. Curly hair when straightened, over time will go curly again. The hair going back to its natural state. This return to natural state is the cause of shrinkage.

    There are many, many other factors that contribute to shrinkage, but this is the primary cause.

    So to answer the OP question. Very, very good chance the shirt is going to shrink. How much? Only way to find out is to wash it unfortunately.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    33,327
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2006
    Location:
    New York City
    I've washed it three times. Didn't shrink as much as expected. It must be top quality!!111
     
  14. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    999
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    Due to my poor English, i do not know if you mean being pompous ( bad)[​IMG] or didactic ( good)[​IMG]

    Most of the people on dressing forums do imitate dressing leyends ( not me, also do not consider it a signal of being good or bad, ) as per example Gianelli, the owner of FIAT cars. He only used Riva shirts.
    ( Could also have been using Hugo Boss shirts on the other hand)

    Riva is the unbeteable fabric that no other producer has ever reached to aproximate, even they try to imitate the feeling or even the names of the product as VOILE being VEIL in SIC TESS etc.

    You like it or not, is your respectable opinion, ( not respectable calling nonsense) but is not something that can technically rebated. Simply is the best as it also was before i was born on the late 70s. Period.


    I also disslike Acorn, curious the owner was involved with Thomas Mason in UK before it was sold to the Italian Albini group, maybe he uses similar house chemichals etc.

    My mother used to buy chinese bazar shower towels, she ( and most of the people) at the beginning of the chinesse bazars on the late 90s, loved the soft handle of it, it felt as silicon spray used to shine the car tyres, after some washes, it went out and came a poor scratchy cotton, so she returned to the made in country ones used all her life.
    Rubinelli has great fabrics and great friendly people working there also, curious to say on this thread i recommend it mostly for the low end and heavy ones, even i wear myself the 170 and 200s most of the time.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2015
  15. traverscao

    traverscao Senior member

    Messages:
    1,437
    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    Location:
    United States
    I have my shirts washed in the washer. If they have too many foreign lint residue, I'd put them in the dryer on low. Afterwards, I mix one quarter cup of fabric softener in a bucket full of cold water and let soak for half an hour. They don't shrink at all, and they've lasted me over 5 years.
     
  16. SartodiNapoli

    SartodiNapoli Senior member

    Messages:
    999
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2013
    We did yesterday the showroom shirts for a well know brand,( those who uses lowers fabrics but askes mad prices just for the name), half a size was given as shrinkage tollerance and also a denim one was taken to the laundry to age it with a chemical process that i didn't know could be made on laundries. Interesting, but sure a shirt i would never wear myself.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by