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Shaq Gets Traded to the Suns

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by landho, Feb 6, 2008.

  1. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    It's not about qualifiers. Artest isn't quick enough to keep up with the kobes at an elite level and not big enough to guard the duncans at an elite level. Same with prince (rip's a pretty underrated defender. he's not amazing but he's pretty solid) and bruce. There are actually a lot of small forward/power forward hybrids in the nba these days. Especially with a lot of teams playing small ball so it's valuable to have good defensive guys at the 3 spot. Marion guards certain styles at an elite level, and others at a good level. Same with bruce/artest/prince/ben wallace. If you think they can all guard 3 different styles of player at an elite level you're absolutely fooling yourself.

    I still don't see ron artest as an elite defender the past season and a half. I think it's because he doesn't care as much. I really hope that artest gets moved before the deadline to a contender. I remember hearing a rumor about the nuggets being interested in him. Can you imagine a better off court behavior team than artest, iverson, melo and jr smith? David stern just shuttered.
     
  2. landho

    landho Senior member

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    There has yet to be a "kobe stopper"

    Ruben Patterson, the original Kobe Stopper, broke Kobe's four-game streak of scoring 45 points points or more by holding him to 41.

    How many semi-decent point forward are there anyway?

    [​IMG]
     
  3. 76classic

    76classic Senior member

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    And Shaq? Said the same GM: "He can't guard anyone. He can't get up and down the floor. You'd expect a desperate team like the Knicks or Nets to make a move for Shaq ... but the Suns? I still can't believe it. They are making a huge mistake. Trading Marion for Shaq will destroy that team, not only this year, but for years to come. I'm sure [Lakers owner] Jerry Buss and [Mavericks owner] Mark Cuban are thrilled."


    I don't think it will be as bad as many people think. Sometimes a change of scenery does help. He has a realistic chance to grab another ring and he doesn't have to be the man logging 35-40 minutes. Shaq and Amare up front. Please. I'll take it. Last 4 champs have been Spurs, Pistons, Heat, Spurs. None were high powered run and gun. That hasn't been done since Showtime Lakers. It hasn't worked for the Suns or the Mavs, so maybe this change could be good. Besides, usually fast breaks aren't 5 on 5, so the Suns can still pick their spots when to run or not.
     
  4. Brian278

    Brian278 Senior member

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    Besides, usually fast breaks aren't 5 on 5, so the Suns can still pick their spots when to run or not.

    People keep pointing this out, that they can just leave Shaq behind when they run. But it effectively means they're running 4 on 5 or at the least 4 on 4 when they used to have all 5 guys with the ability to get out on the break. The beauty of the Suns was that their "center" was Amare, who is fast and quick and will finish on anybody and would get down the court for the pass from Nash. And then from down on Marion, Jones, etc. were all at least as fast. Now you just added one guy who isn't going to get back down the floor, and there is no way they aren't going to have a reduced ability to run anyway. Not to mention that Marion was often the first guy down the court.
     
  5. landho

    landho Senior member

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    People keep pointing this out, that they can just leave Shaq behind when they run. But it effectively means they're running 4 on 5 or at the least 4 on 4 when they used to have all 5 guys with the ability to get out on the break. The beauty of the Suns was that their "center" was Amare, who is fast and quick and will finish on anybody and would get down the court for the pass from Nash. And then from down on Marion, Jones, etc. were all at least as fast. Now you just added one guy who isn't going to get back down the floor, and there is no way they aren't going to have a reduced ability to run anyway. Not to mention that Marion was often the first guy down the court.

    In the "old" days, they ran Kurt Thomas at center and Amare at power forward, and they still had ample opportunity to run fast breaks. And while Marion did get down the floor quickly, it's not like Raja Bell's a slouch. (I assume that Shaq won't be starting or will starting only part of the time.)
     
  6. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    Raja bell doesn't run the break that great or anything. He's not a slouch but he's not all that athletic and certainly not the high flyer marion was. Nash could essentially just get the outlet off the rebound and just chuck it at the basket. It's going to be different for them with shaq replacing marion in the lineup. Diaw is really athletic but not quite in the same way marion was. The offense will essentially be the same but they lost the 2nd most important player on their team. Marion, nash and the system were just a match made in heaven. Definitely something i'm glad i got to watch for a few years.


    I think the suns might be more a title contender if shaq stays healthy and adapts well, but the chad ford article about what the suns could've gotten for marion instead was interesting. Jermaine oneal has a history of injury as well, but wouldn't he work out better than shaq? I mean, he's more athletic, quicker, a better defender/shotblocker that this stage in shaq's career and can stretch the court with a midrange jumper or play on the block. Still though, when is shaq supposed to play his first game?
     
  7. landho

    landho Senior member

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    Whoops--brain fart. I didn't mean Raja Bell, I meant Boris Diaw.

    You really think Marion is the second-most important player on the team? I think of the Suns as a sort of hydra with Nash as the evil wizard controlling it (or whatever)--as long as Nash is there to drive them, they have enough parts to play their style and win. Stoudemire showed that he's not irreplaceable a couple of years ago, and I don't think Marion is, either. Ironically, in some sets Marion's role will be filled by Stoudemire, who will probably flourish in that role.
     
  8. landho

    landho Senior member

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    Shawn Marion sure looks energized against the Lakers, doesn't he?
     
  9. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    He seems more comfortable in the mid 2nd now, but it's going to be weird for him adjusting to a new system that was used to being almost unbearably slow. It's funny watching though because here in the 2nd quarter, marion is basically running the point. He just grabs the board and sprints down the court as if he's in phoenix still. It's definitely keeping the heat in the game. It seems him and banks may just change the culture in miami. Miami needs something new at least. The heat can do some interesting things as far as pushing the tempo now. They have some players who probably wouldn't mind running (banks, marion, wade, ricky davis, alexander johnson). It'll be neat to see how pat riley adjusts play style considering the team is drastically different without shaq now. I'm guessing pat riley really doesn't care that much at this point. He gets mad in press conferences, but i doubt he coaches much longer.
     
  10. landho

    landho Senior member

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    Ha ha--he's not the Pat Riley who will require hip-replacement surgery after throwing a tantrum in the locker room.

    The person this trade may have ended up helping the most is Dorrell Wright--a long, athletic player who thrives in open spaces and has skills but doesn't really have a jumpshot. He kind of got lost in the mix with Shaq there, but he really impressed me in the first quarter. He would have been on the floor more, but he got into some foul trouble.
     
  11. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    I agree. Not enough people are talking about the impact on the heat. I mean, i don't blame them since they're mired in filth right now but still. The heat looked like a completely different team this game (a better one). There are a ton of players who will benefit. Marion played a good game. He was like a transition point forward. The heat would find him immediately on a fast break and let him run it since i guess he had the most experience with it. Kobe and Pau had those 2 big baskets at the end of the game to seal the deal just as miami made it a game again. It's gonna be hard to stop those 2 at the end of games.
     
  12. whacked

    whacked Senior member

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    ^^ That what I've been saying all along - the Heat made out like a bandit in this trade. The only problem is that they clearly aren't going anywhere at the moment; by the end of this season they'll have to decide whether Marion's worth the $16-20M per year he's going to command in the open market.

    And doesn't Dorrell Wright play the 3 position as well?
     
  13. landho

    landho Senior member

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    The Heat are running Marion at the four and Dorrell at the three with Blount at the five. Haslem is injured right now, so it'll be interesting to see how things shake up when he comes back. Still, though, with the fluidity of positions in modern basketball, I think you should have Wade, Wright, and Marion on the floor together regardless of classification.

    As good as Marion is, I think he's wildly overpaid at the moment. He's probably worth around Tayshaun money, which is about $49 million over five years, or $10 mil per.
     
  14. Saucemaster

    Saucemaster Senior member

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    Alright, after a few days to mull this over, I will say this: I still think this will come back to haunt Kerr and D'Antoni, but I love that they were willing to try, and it might have more of a shot at working than I originally thought. I realized this because I just read that Shaq plans on getting back on the court after the All-Star break, and the Suns' first opponent after the break is... my very own Lakers. And honestly, that makes me a little nervous about that game. I wouldn't have been nervous at all before the trade.
     
  15. chronoaug

    chronoaug Senior member

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    I picked him up in my fantasy league just for fun [​IMG] .
     
  16. jpeirpont

    jpeirpont Senior member

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  17. Brian278

    Brian278 Senior member

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    Marion wasn't looking like a defensive great right here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzGeJ...eature=related


    Skewed sample. Kobe routinely makes everyone in this league look silly when he's on.

    On a side note, I'm really disappointed that Kobe isn't playing in the All-Star game tonight (or if he does, it'll be a mere cameo as a starter). He and AI are two of the few guys that take the thing seriously and play hard and they always make it much more interesting in the 4th quarter.
     
  18. jpeirpont

    jpeirpont Senior member

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    Skewed sample. Kobe routinely makes everyone in this league look silly when he's on.

    On a side note, I'm really disappointed that Kobe isn't playing in the All-Star game tonight (or if he does, it'll be a mere cameo as a starter). He and AI are two of the few guys that take the thing seriously and play hard and they always make it much more interesting in the 4th quarter.

    True like when he put his nuts on Howard's forehead.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_ryp...eature=related
     
  19. Brian278

    Brian278 Senior member

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