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SF and Decorum / Gentlemanly Behaviour

Blackhood

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Firstly allow me to apologise for what is sure to be anything from a stream of consciousness, rant or bitching session to a cohesive discourse on our cultural cul-de-sac.

Recently, having been reading the forums for just over a year, I have begun to notice that although great value is put on style, fit and individuality there seems to be a gaping lack of pride in gentlemanly behaviour.

This thread has been inspired by the following thread Clicky.

In this instance of course the correct advice was given, plainly state the origin of the shoes in question but do everything in one's power not to embarrass the other party involved.

I sometimes wonder if, for all our nitpicking over sleeve length, surgeons cuffs and trouser break, we aren't beginning to miss the point of being men. I was once told by my father that to highlight the ignorance of another man is one of the worst crimes one can commit.

Of course this does not mean that one cannot comment on the alternative (and more proper) practices, simply that one should not ever seek to put another down based on their level of education.

I had even begun to allow SF groupthink colour my opinion of strangers based entirely on the sartorial choices. If I see a man wearing Armani jeans my initial reaction is not to assume that the man in question has bought the best he could afford, but that he deserves pity for not being as well versed in denim selection as those "in the know".

This trend is particularly obvious in the way in which new members of the SF community are treated. Obviously answering questions that have been discussed ad nauseam would be tedious a waste of time, but I can't hope to feel there must be some way to create a standardised response which is polite but also informative.

Something along these lines:
The question you have posed to the forum has been asked and discussed many times before.

By using the search function located in the upper right-hand corner of the screen you may well be able to find a great deal of useful information that will hopefully answer your question.

you should be advised that continuing to request information that is freely available may result in hostility from forum members. On the other hand if your question cannot be legitimately answered then feel free to state this and await (hopefully) helpful responses.

Welcome to the forums
this clearly has become a rant. The point I am trying to make is that while many people here have style and fit absolutely nailed, most behave in a way that would make most of our grandfathers shudder with distaste.

I for one am putting my search for the finest shoe/suit/tie on a firm hold until I can honestly say that I am fit to wear the finest clothing.
 

lasbar

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Originally Posted by Blackhood
Firstly allow me to apologise for what is sure to be anything from a stream of consciousness, rant or bitching session to a cohesive discourse on our cultural cul-de-sac.

Recently, having been reading the forums for just over a year, I have begun to notice that although great value is put on style, fit and individuality there seems to be a gaping lack of pride in gentlemanly behaviour.

This thread has been inspired by the following thread Clicky.

In this instance of course the correct advice was given, plainly state the origin of the shoes in question but do everything in one's power not to embarrass the other party involved.

I sometimes wonder if, for all our nitpicking over sleeve length, surgeons cuffs and trouser break, we aren't beginning to miss the point of being men. I was once told by my father that to highlight the ignorance of another man is one of the worst crimes one can commit.

Of course this does not mean that one cannot comment on the alternative (and more proper) practices, simply that one should not ever seek to put another down based on their level of education.

I had even begun to allow SF groupthink colour my opinion of strangers based entirely on the sartorial choices. If I see a man wearing Armani jeans my initial reaction is not to assume that the man in question has bought the best he could afford, but that he deserves pity for not being as well versed in denim selection as those "in the know".

This trend is particularly obvious in the way in which new members of the SF community are treated. Obviously answering questions that have been discussed ad nauseam would be tedious a waste of time, but I can't hope to feel there must be some way to create a standardised response which is polite but also informative.

Something along these lines:


this clearly has become a rant. The point I am trying to make is that while many people here have style and fit absolutely nailed, most behave in a way that would make most of our grandfathers shudder with distaste.

I for one am putting my search for the finest shoe/suit/tie on a firm hold until I can honestly say that I am fit to wear the finest clothing.




I feel a bit embarassed when I read some threads...

Some op take a certain pleasure in humiliating newcomers and the mob mentality is starting to be highly annoying...

This forum is losing its main USP...

Constructive criticism and sartorial brotherhood are the cornerstone of our beloved sf...

It is dangerously becoming cliquey and partisan...
 

Blackhood

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Originally Posted by lasbar
I feel a bit embarassed when I read some threads...

Some op take a certain pleasure in humiliating newcomers and the mob mentality is starting to be highly annoying...

This forum is losing its main USP...

Constructive criticism and sartorial brotherhood are the cornerstone of our beloved sf...

It is dangerously becoming cliquey and partisan...


I'm not at all bitter that you managed to say in 4 lines what it took me 30 to vomit out....
 

kev777

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Originally Posted by lasbar
I feel a bit embarassed when I read some threads...

Some op take a certain pleasure in humiliating newcomers and the mob mentality is starting to be highly annoying...

This forum is losing its main USP...

Constructive criticism and sartorial brotherhood are the cornerstone of our beloved sf...

It is dangerously becoming cliquey and partisan...


+1 Enough Said and well executed.
 

Bounder

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Originally Posted by Blackhood
I sometimes wonder if, for all our nitpicking over sleeve length, surgeons cuffs and trouser break, we aren't beginning to miss the point of being men.
It's pulling birds, isn't it?
 

XKxRome0ox

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thanks for the thread
very good reminder for the forum
 

Gus

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I used to be surprised how many people used a "style" forum for unstylish behavior and comments. But then I became surprised how many people on here don't say anything about it. Perhaps it is time to speak up in rude threads and posts? Would that help? Or am I just being naive?
 

997CTSurg

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Clothes do not the man make.
It is very evident to this neophyte @ least on this forum that the internet mob mentality has won and taken over. I am sure that almost all of those who have the tendency to bully and hide behind the anonymity of the computer screen would be quite pleasant to have a discussion of the finer points that this forum has to offer.
I expect such churlish behavior out of no one.
 

DocHolliday

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Originally Posted by pocketsquareguy
I used to be surprised how many people used a "style" forum for unstylish behavior and comments. But then I became surprised how many people on here don't say anything about it. Perhaps it is time to speak up in rude threads and posts? Would that help? Or am I just being naive?

SF has always been a bit freewheeling, but you have to bear in mind that some of that is in response to the rather affected "good sir" gentlemanliness you find elsewhere. Rudeness is bad, of course, but artificial politeness can be tiring in another way.

Most of the rudeness I see around here seems to come from semi-noobs looking to make names for themselves, rather than well-established folks. As such, I try not to pay it much mind, as I'm not sure what can be done about it. Too many folks eager to sling the low-grade snark. Most such posters will slink away after a while.

The "do a search, n00b!" responses bother me less than some of the nastier stuff that gets directed regularly at certain members. I'm never sad to see the ban hammer drop on repeat offenders in that regard.
 

KObalto

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OP, I agree we could be more civil here, but the thread you linked to is far from the worst I've seen. Most of the responses were simply joking with the guy who started the thread.
What surprises me are the noobs who show up and demand to be educated, saying they couldn't find anything when they searched or don't have the time. When someone appears with an oft asked question, I'll suggest a keyword or even link to a thread. If they get pushy, I ignore them (sometimes after a quick bit of snark). You'll notice I haven't posted on MonsieurDA's wonderful MTM thread. Don't feed the trolls or the assholes, but try to point others in the right direction.

EDIT: Not that I haven't sinned in the past myself. I think Vox's recent re-birth was an acknowledgment that his often hilarious tongue-in-cheek snarkiness may have been partially responsible for leading some down the wrong path. I still miss it, though.
Irony, etc. is often lost on the webz.
 

radicaldog

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Netiquette (for lack of a better term) is very different from real life propriety. Having said that, it's true that this place would benefit from some more civility.
 

Zephyrnoid

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Wow! This is only second post and already I'm feeling so at home.

I have two careers. One is visual arts oriented and the other is a fringe of technology referred to as "Human Factors". The former is all about lush visual experiences and the latter promotes frictionless experiences between humans and technologies.

The business of newbies posting questions, that have been answered ad naseum before (somewhere) in the labrinthine 'spaghetti bowl' of a particual forum is a recurring theme .

Since it's part of my business to resolve such problems, allow me to respectfully share my reflections on the matter in summary fashion.

1) Most forums seem to suffer from this predicament for the SAME reason. That reason is that the knowledge that is therein contained is horribly organised. SEARCH is NOT the resolution for horrible architected sites and poorly warehoused knowledge. At all.
2) People are lonely. That's why they join clubs and that includes online communities of interest. Even if a person knows that SEARCH will likely yield some ANSWERS, they really want to be welcomed as new members with the personal touch of a hotel 'Doorman that knows you by your first name'. It's human nature plain and simple.
3) Poorly organized content will often result in a list of hits invoked by a SEARCH; that does not necessarily answer a question, even though the results my well contain keywords that correspond to the SEARCH query.
4) No one wants to to labor like a slave to warehouse and manage knowledge like I've been taught to do and this is a tragedy that spans the Internet as a whole.
5) Humans are lazy by nature. Not all of them, but most of them.

I could go on, but you get the idea. The resolution to this ongoing problem is to revamp the entire structure of a forum and to develop a knowledge base that is less fluid and relaxed in exchange for one that is highly structured and disciplined.
When I speak of discipline, I'm referring to Military style discipline and accountability in the sharing of knowledge.

I stand ready to help out in this matter if called to do so by the forum stake-holders.I'm working on an EPSS engagement so I can use a beta project in conjunction.
In the meantime, the OP's sage observations and eloquent portrayal was much appreciated by me; as it formed the springboard for what I hope will be a solution to the problem.
 

Gus

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Originally Posted by DocHolliday
you have to bear in mind that some of that is in response to the rather affected "good sir" gentlemanliness you find elsewhere. Rudeness is bad, of course, but artificial politeness can be tiring in another way.


Agreed. The sappy affected speech is so
 

Master Squirrel

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Okay Is have been drinking... and forgot my point. Oh yeah! Does this dinner jacket make my ass look fat?

As a long time troll, people coming into an new community do need to lurk a while before posting. If anything it is to get the feel for the culture of the group. There is no need for members to be rude, but one must also remember not to read emotion into posts. Something that is to the point may be considered rude on the first read.

Hold on... Bunny is here...
 

bellyhungry

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My view of this is that it is an open internet forum and it attracts all kinds. I am easy either way and am not going to lose any sleep one way or the other.
 

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