Several Tuxedo Questions

[kuslamb]

New to the forum, and it is great. I have reviewed several tuxedo discussions and I still have a few more to ask.

I purchased a tuxedo yesterday. Satin notch lapels, 2 button, double vents, single pleat pant, no cuff. The tuxedo is made by Canali. Though I am not 100% correct, I believe this is the model - http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/canali-wool-tuxedo/3036465 (though the linked jacket does not show the satin highlights).

Additionally, I purchased a white tuxedo shirt with the faintest horizontal stripe (white on white). Standard collar. Shirt made by Robert Talbott.

My retailer was kind enough to throw in 2 ties - both black satin perfectly matching the satin on the jacket. One a standard hand tied bow tie, the other a long tie.

I am not sure, but I was thinking about wearing the tuxedo with the long black tie. In doing so, I was wondering what the general consensus was regarding additional accessories (cummerbund or vest). I do not think I want to wear a cummerbund. I am really not sure why, but feel that the look is a bit dated for someone my age (28). I am open to a vest, but not 100% on wanting to wear one.

My tailor is sewing in buttons for braces. I currently have a few suits with which I wear braces, but currently do not have black braces so I will need to purchase some in the next few weeks. Any recommendations for a nice pair of black braces that go with a tux. I am not sure whether standard black braces (such as http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatP...&sectionsize=#) will work with a tuxedo.

A few questions. First, is this too dressed down for a black tie event (tux, long tie, braces, no cummerbund/vest) or is it okay? What about this look with the bow tie (tux, bow tie, braces, no cummerbund/vest).

If I go with the long tie, I currently do not have a stud set, would I need one or does the tie cover the buttons sufficiently? I understand that with the bow tie, I will need a stud set. If I wear the long tie, I have silver cuff square cuff links that were given to me by my grandfather.

Thanks for any opinions, I need the assistance.

 

[Sanguis Mortuum]

Originally Posted by kuslamb

I was thinking about wearing the tuxedo with the long black tie.

Don't.

 

[kuslamb]

Originally Posted by Sanguis Mortuum

Don't.


Any additional commentary would be really helpful...

 

[mjphillips]

Agree with above, wear the bowtie instead of the long tie. Personally I've always thought of a vest as stodgier (and more waiter-like) than a cummerbund, and your standard single breasted high buttoning tuxedo vest robs you of the torso-enhancing deep V created by the contrast between your shirt and jacket. Honestly though if you don't feel like wearing a vest or cummerbund no one is likely to notice or care (James Bond didn't.)

The braces you posted are fine, but nicer ones have braided (silk?) ends (instead of leather) in either black or white. White/ivory braces are also an option. Mine are from Brooks Bros but they don't seem to carry them anymore. Check Trafalgar or Albert Thurston. You really shouldn't take off your jacket anyway so the braces will barely be seen.

Regarding studs - you only need to wear them with a wing collared shirt. It might look a tad sloppy to have exposed buttons, but on a nice Talbott shirt they should be mother of pearl and will be fine. I always lose studs anyway.

Really though, you already have a nice tuxedo but wear the bowtie. The rest is just window dressing.

 

[arvidg]

Originally Posted by kuslamb

New to the forum, and it is great. I have reviewed several tuxedo discussions and I still have a few more to ask.

I purchased a tuxedo yesterday. Satin notch lapels,

Swap for peak or shawl if you can.

2 button,

One button is better, if you're returning it anyway.

double vents, single pleat pant, no cuff. The tuxedo is made by Canali. Though I am not 100% correct, I believe this is the model - http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/canali-wool-tuxedo/3036465 (though the linked jacket does not show the satin highlights).

Additionally, I purchased a white tuxedo shirt with the faintest horizontal stripe (white on white). Standard collar. Shirt made by Robert Talbott.

My retailer was kind enough to throw in 2 ties - both black satin perfectly matching the satin on the jacket. One a standard hand tied bow tie, the other a long tie.

A black long tie is a useful item in your wardrobe, but it isn't Black Tie and should never, ever, be worn as such.

I am not sure, but I was thinking about wearing the tuxedo with the long black tie.

Don't. It's quite simply wrong. You'll stand out like, well, like someone who thinks a black long tie consitutes Black Tie.

In doing so, I was wondering what the general consensus was regarding additional accessories (cummerbund or vest). I do not think I want to wear a cummerbund. I am really not sure why, but feel that the look is a bit dated for someone my age (28). I am open to a vest, but not 100% on wanting to wear one.

Well. If you insist on the long tie, skip the cummerbund or vest. Also skip the tux, either replacing it with a (solid dark navy or charcoal) suit or skipping the party altogether.

If, on the other hand, you go with the bow, wear either a (black satin) cummerbund or a (low-cut black satin) vest matching the lapels (and bow tie). Make sure the vest or cummerbund covers your waistline.

My tailor is sewing in buttons for braces. I currently have a few suits with which I wear braces, but currently do not have black braces so I will need to purchase some in the next few weeks. Any recommendations for a nice pair of black braces that go with a tux. I am not sure whether standard black braces (such as http://www.brooksbrothers.com/IWCatP...&sectionsize=#) will work with a tuxedo.

Any braces that button will do. They won't be seen unless you shed your jacket (and optional vest), and by that time no-one will care if they're black, white, or navy with pink smiley faces.

A few questions. First, is this too dressed down for a black tie event (tux, long tie, braces, no cummerbund/vest) or is it okay?

Too dressed down, unless you're an A-list Hollywood celebrity in which case it's still too dressed down but you'd get away with it.

What about this look with the bow tie (tux, bow tie, braces, no cummerbund/vest).

Still too dressed down, but far less noticeably so.

If I go with the long tie, I currently do not have a stud set, would I need one or does the tie cover the buttons sufficiently? I understand that with the bow tie, I will need a stud set. If I wear the long tie, I have silver cuff square cuff links that were given to me by my grandfather.

So get an inexpensive stud set for the money you save by re-using your old braces. Or, you could use a shirt that doesn't require studs - such tuxedo shirts are quite commonplace. (With white tie and tails, on the other hand...)

Thanks for any opinions, I need the assistance.

Happy to help!

 

[mjphillips]

Originally Posted by kuslamb

Satin notch lapels, 2 button

Missed this part - if not too late swap it for peak or shawl as recommended above. If they only work you've had done to it is suspender buttons those come off easily.

 

[ShoesYouCanUse]

Greetings - If you are a slender built man I would go with peak lapels, bow tie without a cummerbund. Never dress down a tux. It is a formal garment.

Best regards,

 

[Troilus]

Originally Posted by kuslamb

First, is this too dressed down for a black tie event (tux, long tie, braces, no cummerbund/vest) or is it okay? What about this look with the bow tie (tux, bow tie, braces, no cummerbund/vest).
You are not going to find a lot of love for anything but a bowtie here on SF. I would certainly find it weird at almost all events and borderline incorrect at others (evening wedding, for instance). I'm going to break with earlier advice and champion the cummerbund. It's true that Bond didn't wear one, but he also ordered his martinis shaken (making them weaker than a stirred martini), so I'm already skeptical. More to the point, not wearing a cummerbund will strike some as slovenly and others as an attempt to be rakish; if you are wearing this to a work function, these are not vibes you want to send out. Tuxedos are cool without trying. The bells and whistles you're suggesting just strike me as overkill.

Originally Posted by kuslamb

If I go with the long tie, I currently do not have a stud set, would I need one or does the tie cover the buttons sufficiently? I understand that with the bow tie, I will need a stud set. If I wear the long tie, I have silver cuff square cuff links that were given to me by my grandfather.
You need a stud set regardless. It's just a standard part of the tuxedo.

Originally Posted by mjphillips

Missed this part - if not too late swap it for peak or shawl as recommended above. If they only work you've had done to it is suspender buttons those come off easily.
Some of these guys are really going to get after you, particularly about lacking shawl lapels. Having just looked, no one makes shawl tuxes OTR anymore. So while I might prefer a different lapel, I think you shouldn't bend over backwards for that element. Similarly, one-button would be ideal but two is fine.

 

[kuslamb]

Thanks for all the replies. I went with 2 button, notch, because that is what I like, and that is what (in my opinion) has always fit my frame the best. My retailer had one in stock that looked fantastic on me, so thats what I went with. I knew based on my previous readings that I would get a some grief for that, but I guess it's my suit, so I was going to get what I liked.

As for the tie discussion, thanks again. I knew it would likely get shot down, but the guy threw in the ties (both Talbott, the long tie being a 7 fold), so I had it and was curious. I will go with the bow tie. I now need to get a stud set, and have not loved what I have seen online. Any recommendations for a nice set. I am not super price sensitive, but obviously is it a factor.

I will not be shedding my jacket, as I never do (suit or tuxedo) and this is a business function. As this is a business event, I feel it even adds more to the necessity of wearing a bow tie (though it sounds like the tuxedo makes it a necessity, not the event).

 

[mrjames]

Originally Posted by kuslamb

because that is what I like, and that is what (in my opinion) has always fit my frame the best.
Good man, eventually style forum will get the better of you and it will tell you what best fits your frame notch is fine, 2 button is too- but it's just not as different enough from a suit for me to really feel like i'm dressing up i'd have gone peak, but that's just me definitely go with a cummerband, the flash of white shirt at your waist is visually arresting and takes attention away from your face- it's just a matter of aesthetics. Black tie is founded on aesthetics, to move away from the classic 'rules' is to move away from an aesthetic ideal. Black tie is created for maximum contrast in mimimal lighting- it has a different role to the suit, and is therefore designed and cut differently. In business dress the tie usually covers this 'gap'- I re-iterate once again; a suit and black tie are not the same and require different finishing techniques definitely not a long tie, aesthetically it just doesn't work with such a high contrast outfit in such low lighting levels, the deep V created by the lapels serve to enhance the V shape of a man's figure- the tie cuts this section in 2 and makes a man look weird probably go with white braces rather than black, not that anyone will see anyway and any stiff front turn down collared shirt with a covered placket is a fine contemporary option, it is said to fit in with the downplayed minimalism of black tie, but seeing as you have the shirt anyway I guess you're looking for a stud set. In this case black lacquer and gold is a classic option

 

[Doc4]

Originally Posted by Troilus

You are not going to find a lot of love for anything but a bowtie here on SF. I would certainly find it weird at almost all events and borderline incorrect at others (evening wedding, for instance).

I'm going to break with earlier advice and champion the cummerbund. It's true that Bond didn't wear one, but he also ordered his martinis shaken (making them weaker than a stirred martini), so I'm already skeptical. More to the point, not wearing a cummerbund will strike some as slovenly and others as an attempt to be rakish; if you are wearing this to a work function, these are not vibes you want to send out.

Tuxedos are cool without trying. The bells and whistles you're suggesting just strike me as overkill.

You need a stud set regardless. It's just a standard part of the tuxedo.

Some of these guys are really going to get after you, particularly about lacking shawl lapels. Having just looked, no one makes shawl tuxes OTR anymore. So while I might prefer a different lapel, I think you shouldn't bend over backwards for that element.

Similarly, one-button would be ideal but two is fine.
That's really good advice, actually.

Originally Posted by kuslamb

Thanks for all the replies. I went with 2 button, notch, because that is what I like, and that is what (in my opinion) has always fit my frame the best. My retailer had one in stock that looked fantastic on me, so thats what I went with. I knew based on my previous readings that I would get a some grief for that, but I guess it's my suit, so I was going to get what I liked.

As for the tie discussion, thanks again. I knew it would likely get shot down, but the guy threw in the ties (both Talbott, the long tie being a 7 fold), so I had it and was curious. I will go with the bow tie. I now need to get a stud set, and have not loved what I have seen online. Any recommendations for a nice set. I am not super price sensitive, but obviously is it a factor.

I will not be shedding my jacket, as I never do (suit or tuxedo) and this is a business function. As this is a business event, I feel it even adds more to the necessity of wearing a bow tie (though it sounds like the tuxedo makes it a necessity, not the event).

The best suspenders (braces): http://www.albertthurston.com/categoryfast2.cfm?catid=1

Studs: http://www.thomaspink.com/fcp/produc...-White-X4/4941
or http://www.thomaspink.com/fcp/produc...Studs/99913623

 

[Testudo_Aubreii]

Originally Posted by kuslamb

I will go with the bow tie.

Excellent choice. I think the notch-lapel dinner suit with black bow tie looks fine. It may not be the best option, and would probably be better with a single button, but it's not bad at all. Connery Bond wore the notch DJ well.

There is a good aesthetic reason for everyone's dislike of the long tie with a dinner suit. It interrupts the strong contrast between jacket and shirt which gives the ensemble what Alan Flusser called its "formal integrity." In the attached photos, you'll see that Daniel Craig's bow plays up the contrast between jacket and shirt, while Kevin Bacon's and the other guy's long ties break it up. The strong-contrast effect is provided by the single triangle of white bordered almost entirely by black; the bow tie and Craig's shoulder line together suggest the base of the triangle. That's lost with the long ties, and it's replaced by a lower contrast centered on two thin open V's. The black-bordered triangle better suggests the triangular body silhouette which men's tailoring has idealized since the Regency period.

I think this holds even of the smaller triangle provided by 6x2 double breasted peak lapel dinner jackets, although less so, of course. The smallness of that triangle is counterbalanced by the upsweep of the peak lapels, which widen the triangle, so to speak. Indeed, this helps explain why a 6x2 or 4x2 DB shawl DJ doesn't look right, and 4x1 shawl,* with a bigger field of white, looks much better. I think it's because 6x2 or 4x2 shawl can't suggest the big triangle in the way the 4x2 or 6x2 peak can (guy on the left).

This also explains why 4x1 peak DJs somehow look more formal than 4x2 or 6x2 peak DJs, but 4x2 or 6x2 day coats definitely look more formal than 4x1 day coats. In the daytime, the buttoned-up look makes the 2's look more formal. In the evening, the bigger white triangle makes the 1's seem more formal. This because dinner suits are more obsessed with the male triangle than are lounge suits for day wear.

Moreover, it explains why people here prefer a one button single breasted DJ to a two-button SB, irrespective of lapel type.

All this is leading to the paradoxical claim that a 4x1 shawl DJ is more formal than a 6x2 peak DJ! That may be going too far, but I think a case could be made for it, if the wrap of the shawl fell particularly low and allowed a much longer white triangle than did the 6x2 peak.

* I know, it's probably a 4x2 in a square pattern rolled to the bottom button. What matters is the length of the lapel: shorter, like a 4x2. Longer, like a 4x1.

 

[dasai]

Obligatory linkspam:

http://www.blacktieguide.com