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Selective logic

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by imageWIS, Jun 23, 2004.

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  1. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior Member

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    You people are mad, talking about toothpaste. come off it. [​IMG] [​IMG] The maid gets the toothpaste in my house, and we think nothing more off it.
     


  2. Mike C.

    Mike C. Distinguished Member

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    The truth about Coutts Apparently they do let some riff-raff into Coutts nowadays. People "from all walks of life." The horror. Sorry buddy, I just thought it was funny that a bank would be labeled "prestigious."
     


  3. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior Member

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  4. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior Member

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    Only ever in England innit (in true cockney style baby&#33[​IMG]
     


  5. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    Actually my friend ended up paying NM, and I ended up paying him. My father has a Centurion AmEx (which, if you have a decent amount of money with AmEx in a savings, finance, etc... account, they waive the $2500 annual charge), I'll just borrow his card next time. Interesting thing about it though, some places don't think it's a real card and call AmEx to verify its validity, whilst some places treat him much better when he pulls it out to pay. The moral? People are impressed by dull-sheen pieces off plastic that have purchasing power. Jon. In addition, banks like Julius Baer have a minimum regarding their accounts, depending on the account you want, setting limits is nothing new. It really does not matter where you bank, but how much money you actually have, no?
     


  6. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior Member

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    Huh? The Americans are telling the British that something you have is nothing new. That is the laugh of the century. (I know Julius Bar is Swiss, but that's not realy the point here)

    I do however, agree with the second part.
     


  7. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    Another friend of mine is in upper-middle management with NM and he said during the opening weekend of one of their stores they lost about $800,000 in sales because they did not accept VISA or MC. For those counting that equals to a loss of, $400,000 per day, $47,058.82 per hour, $784.31 per minute...sounds like good a good business practice to me. Jon.
    Let me take a chance to explain this to you; the fact that they say they lost $800,000 is in two ways flawed ideology. 1.\tThat is just an estimate; there is no chance, in hell that they can know that figure for sure. 2.\tThey are selling luxury goods here, and this means that there is no chance of lost sales, the whole advantage of being in such a market is that when an average consumer has a desire to purchase a luxury article, every normal practice (when it comes to shopping) is disregarded. Per say you were to buy a Gucci loafer, if it was one season old, you would expect it to be cheaper, whereas if a type of food article had been on the shelves for more than six months, you would still buy it for the same price (obviously not the same piece, but the same type of good). Moreover, if someone wants to buy a suit, which they see in NM at the beginning of the season, they will still buy it, notwithstanding the fact that it will be on sale for half the price in six months. The reason for this is because, a) the consumer may feel that the product is in some way great, and b) the consumer may have traveled a considerable distance to the store in question, so who knows when they will next return. In addition, though I often hear on this forum, that people do not usually pay full price, it still remains that stores sell more in the non-sale period than the sale period in terms of turnover (albeit a much longer period). Though this may be entering unwanted territory, extraordinarily few wealth people pay with a credit card. At least; that is the case in London.
    Hmm, interesting but I'm am sure that 1) They have a statistical calculation that they use to estimate lost revenue. 2) Of course they lose sales if travelers who do not have or did not carry their AmEx cards with them whilst on their travels are not able to purchase items (seeing as, oh say Diners Club is used a lot more in Europe and South America then it is here in the states) when they go to NM. The logic of the "˜seasonal' clothing equation applies much less to men's clothes, since styles evolve over time than radically change as women's do. This is why many companies, including Gucci have most of their shoe selections marketed under the "˜Classic' banner, because they do not change from season to season. Perhaps Europe is different, but in the US, suits are not "˜seasonal', a gray Oxxford 3-button SB suit is always "˜in season'. Jon.
     


  8. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior Member

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    1. Estimate 2. a) But you said international Visa cards WERE accepted. b) Note that Gucci have a Classic banner for women aswell. Also, do note that, yes in Europe trends do change, and also there is a high-end casual scene, unlike in the States. Take LV's clothing, Gucci's jeans, Dior Homme need I realy go on...
     


  9. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    They are, but what if you have MC or Diners? My point is that limiting the use of the two largest credit card interchanges in the world, whether they are domestic or not is just asinine from a business standpoint. Seriously, when is the last time you walked into a store in the UK and they told you they only accept foreign VISA cards? I mean if someone wanted to purchase 10 tons of iron ore, but only wanted to pay in either gold bouillon or diamonds, would that not seem a bit odd (at least from a business standpoint)? Jon.
     


  10. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior Member

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    Jon, I am not saying that I do not agree with you. I do agree with you. It would certainly be advantgeous for NM to accept more forms of payment, but $800,000 could easily be far less than what AMEX are giving to them. However, I do think that your logic is very basic, and silly. (trying my best not to be insultive here [​IMG] ) I personaly hate AMEX, they are idiots, if I dispute a charge (it occurs quite often, as I also overlook the outgoings of the holders of the Corporate Visa cards aswell) they dispute back with me [​IMG] how DARE they. Coutts on the other hand will pay the disputed charge first, and THEN sort it out with the firm involved. Moreover, the fact of the matter is that I have always been right when it comes to the disputed charges. May I ask, what is your job?
     


  11. AlanC

    AlanC Minister of Trad

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    I bank at First National (no minimum balance)

    I use Crest

    I have a MasterCard Platinum and a MC Debit (which can easily be used in place of cash as it is tied to my bank account, but with the convenience of a credit card--pretty cool, huh?)

    It's silly for NM not to accept MC and Visa as it inconveniences potential customers.

    Chill out, people.
     


  12. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    Why is my logic basic and silly? Please do not tell me it is because I used a quote from Lewis Carroll ... Jon. Perhaps if I use something from the Bhagavad-Gita instead?
     


  13. kalra2411

    kalra2411 Senior Member

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    Actualy, not the fact of the quote from Carroll entierly, but also:

    Sounds like something an accountant would say to me, or a company lawyer, and I have to once again remind them of both their company position, and also experince in life (they tend to be in their mid twentys)

    In addtition, your logic is basic becasue you seem to think that America is the only contry in the world.

    But most of all your logic is basic beacuse you seem to think that such a large company like NM is doing what it is knowingly, and yet doing nothing about it.

    I think you need to face the harsh reality that it is not simple to be wealthy, and moreover, need to understand that a lot of thought DOES go into such matters.
     


  14. FIHTies

    FIHTies Distinguished Member

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    I mean if someone wanted to purchase 10 tons of iron ore, but only wanted to pay in either gold bouillon or diamonds, would that not seem a bit odd (at least from a business standpoint)?
    Sounds like something an accountant would say to me, or a company lawyer, and I have to once again remind them of both their company position, and also experince in life (they tend to be in their mid twentys) In addtition, your logic is basic becasue you seem to think that America is the only contry in the world. But most of all your logic is basic beacuse you seem to think that such a large company like NM is doing what it is knowingly, and yet doing nothing about it. I think you need to face the harsh reality that it is not simple to be wealthy, and moreover, need to understand that a lot of thought DOES go into such matters.
    I find this humorous in a sad sort of way, condescending to say the least and most of all for someone that is so involved in a large business "silly" for lack of a better word in a gentlemen's forum. Jon, count your blessings that there was an attempt not to insult. You say that NM by virtue of the fact that its a large company and wealthy assuredly knows what it is doing. I truly believe that there is nothing further from the truth in that statement and many case studies of failed corporations will agree with me. But I will give you a personal example. Saks, NM and other high end retailers "compete" with us on the children's luxury brand designer market. Saks recently wanted to revamp their children's market so instead of taking in the usual wet behind the ears FIT graduate they brought in more experienced blood. A 2 year "senior" buyer from their womens department. 1) This "woman" (little more than a teenage girl) has no experience in children's clothing 2) this woman has no experience with kids and, they placed This woman in charge of the entire Layette and Infant division for all of Saks stores. The same is with NM and the others. They take literally kids and give them alot of money and no direction and there is no follow up on what sells season after season and there is no continuity on the buyers part cause they usually arent around when it comes to the second season and if they make it to there rarely from Fall to Fall or Spring to Spring. This doesnt sound like a company that knows what its doing DESPITE being a hugh wealthy organization. Rather this sounds like its a hugh wealthy organization DESPITE clearly not knowing what its doing in some and I would venture to say many divisions. I can think of many personal examples of management SNAFU's that leave you scratching your head as to how companies like that operate in the Black. Read some Dilbert. Its humorous but very very true. Night all, JJF
     


  15. imageWIS

    imageWIS Stylish Dinosaur

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    Actually I am in my early twenty's, but am not (nor studying towards) a degree in neither accounting nor law.

    When did I say that America was the only country in the world? On the contrary my argument was quite international, especially by bringing three different continents and one less than used credit interchange (in America) into the discussion. I did clearly mention the differences between either side of the pond. I think you are biased because many Americans, mostly the less than traveled (ok, so more than 90% off them have never left the US) constantly boast that the US is the best country in the world, but seeing as I am not American, nor was I born on this continent and have traveled extensively, I actually tend to view America with less than rose-colored glasses.

    You think that NM is not accepting MC and VISA not knowing that they are not? They know that they do not take MC and VISA, but they do have an alternative: use their website and you can use MC and VISA (and Diners) to make purchases within the continental US. Of course, they have calculated their position and there is a specific reason that they do not take other cards; if the answer were obvious and forthcoming I would have not started this thread. And just because there is a reason (logical to them, of course) it does not make it correct, or fiscally viable. NM makes you play by their rules, if this does not sound familiar, just look at that other wonderful American corporation: Microsoft.

    Who said being anything was simple? That is really an evasion of realty, saying that it is not simple being wealthy. Being wealthy is easy, people just make it complex, and being poor is complicated. Imagine, living in a 3-bedroom medium sized, in a decent neighborhood apartment with just one car (say a Acura TL), all the while walking around with $250 million in the bank. You have two children, your wife works, you work, and your children go to school. You have friends, go to the same gym, have the luxury to travel extensively and do (and indulge yourself by traveling in either first class or private airplane, staying in five star hotels, etc...), but you still lead a simple life. Are you wealthy? Of course you are with 1/4 of a billion in the bank (lets say you made a lot of smart investment choices during the internet boom for arguments sake). Money has allowed you to simplify your life; it can of course also make your life extremely complex and difficult (with multiple houses, tons of cars, etc...).
    But, if you are poor, life is ten times more complex, with each necessity a constant struggle, between whether your next meal will come from to where you will sleep tonight, to whether your children will have enough to eat tomorrow and the next day and so on and so fourth.
    If it appears that I use an American perspective towards an American company and their policy towards intracountry business transactions, well that is the only reason why.
    Jon.
     


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