Seiko Watches - Underrated?

[khalidr]

probably one of the best $200 i've spent....

 

[DNW]

Originally Posted by khalidr

probably one of the best $200 i've spent....

With all that stuff on there, how could you ever tell what time it is?

 

[Wingnut]

This is my first posting here. Was directed toward this thread from another forum (watch related). Interesting read. IMVHO Seiko is underrated for reasons that have already been stated: Seiko's marketing strategy in North America . . . quartz for the mainstream consumer where the overwhelming revenue can be made in sales.

Since this is about Seiko, I will post a number of pics of some Seiko rarely seen in the USA with short remarks about each.. None are (or were) expensive, and a couple vintage I personally restored cosmetically (zero movement work . . . no reason for it). You can draw your own conclusions about the brand. Keep in mind that for the vintage, acrylic crystals were found on everything, including Omegas and Rolexes.

Vintage Seiko 5 made in 1969 with a 21j 6119A auto-wind movement in solid stainless steel case. In its era, this was considered an affordable middle-grade Seiko:

Vintage Seiko 5 made in 1974 with 21j 6119C auto-wind movement in solid stainless steel case:

Seiko Arcadia made in 2001 with 10-year battery life 8F32 perpetual quartz movement. It "knows" month of year and which year it is in the Leap Year cycle; date never needs to be advanced at the end of a month. Solid stainless steel case with solid machined links and heavy sapphire crystal. These were sold in the U.S., but not in big numbers. This was a "named" collection selling approx 2x-3x the price of the Seikos most people find in department stores.

Seiko 5 Superior made in 2003 with 23j 7S36 auto-wind movement in machined stainless steel case and integral band and sapphire crystal. This is no light-weight at over 180 grams. Today, the "5 Superior" is a cut above the normal Seiko 5 line and they're sold in the Asian market:

Seiko "Spirit" made in 2006 with 23j 6R15 auto-wind movement in machined stainless steel case and integral band. Not a lightweight either, the crystal is very thick, faceted sapphire and has AR coating on its underside. The "Spirit" is a definite cut above the entire Seiko 5 (Superior) line and they're sold in Japan. After examining it closely, my watchmaker (qualified to work on anything made) remarked that this was the kind of stuff Seiko should be sending to the US:

A brand name owned by Seiko is Credor, and AFAIK, they're only sold in Japan. It's considered a high-end prestige brand with edgier designs compared to the classical Grand Seiko. The "flagship" solid gold cased Credor Spring Drive Sonnerie. MSRP: 15,000,000 JPY; ~$150,000 USD at current exchange rate. You're either into skeleton watches or not . . . for a few dollars less you can get one with a normal dial. (I do not own one):

I want to introduce another Japanese brand rarely seen in the USA: Orient. IMVHO, they are the #2 Japanese watchmaker, just behind Seiko. Their production volumes are small compared to Seiko, and they are marketed in the Asian-Pacific region. Both are mid-range in Orient's entire lineup.

Orient Power Reserve with 23j caliber 46 series Orient auto-wind movement, solid stainless steel case with integral band, and very heavy mineral glass crystal:

Orient "M-Force" Power Reserve World Time with 23j caliber 46 series Orient auto-wind movement, solid stainless steel case with integral band, and very heavy mineral glass crystal. The World Time ring rotates counter-clockwise at half the rate of the hour hand, and can be set as desired using the crown:

Orient's "flagship" is the Royal Orient collection which have Rolex prices. Quite affordable are the Orient Star which are a cut above the pair I've shown and extremely well made. Orient isn't underrated, it's entirely unknown in North America (except among watch collectors). Much of what does migrate across the Big Pond via ePrey is at the very bottom of their watch collections (similar to inexpensive Seikos).

Hope this has given you a look at some Japanese watches you haven't seen before . . . Seiko and Orient . . . and more information about these Japanese brands.

Best Wishes

You may now continue with your regularly scheduled thread about Seiko and whether it's underrated.

 

[Levator Superioris]

I am going to go against the grain, my experience with seiko has been anything but reliable. I had a titanium automatic whose face would come loose and get destroyed by the hands, this happened 3 times until the repair store refunded my money and refused to touch it. The automatic divers (seamaster look alike) needed cleaning after 5 years as it was loosing up to five minutes a day.

 

[Mr.K]

I decided to give Seiko a try again, since I have not owned one in years. I wanted a chronograph that had the look of the IWC and decided on an Asian market watch from Ebay. I really wanted the IWC, but cannot justify the price now compared to the 90.00 dollars this watch cost me. It is a little light compared to the other watches I own, but it should hopefully last a long time and take a good beating.

 

[davidsj]

How are the quality of the Seiko leather bands? Is it a good idea to opt for the metal?

 

[videocrew]

Originally Posted by davidsj

How are the quality of the Seiko leather bands? Is it a good idea to opt for the metal?
The leather is OK, but easily improved. The metal band depends on which one you're looking at. The Oyster style bracelet SUCKS but can be replaced with the "Super Oyster" that floats around the internet and has matching end links available for most of the divers. The President and Jubilee style bracelets are fine. Of course if it's a higher end Seiko (> $250) all bets are off and the metal and leather are both fine.

 

[davidsj]

Just ordered this one from Seiya:

http://www.seiyajapan.com/product/S-...5_SARB031.html

Looking forward to receiving it.

Word of caution to would be buyers: I found out they only accept Payapl or money order/check, and not straight up credit cards. It takes several days to get a Paypal account up and running and confirmed, so if you're even on the fence of purchasing from them, I suggest you get the Paypal account rolling. Nothing sucks more than having to wait to give somebody your money!

 

[forex]

Originally Posted by davidsj

Just ordered this one from Seiya:

http://www.seiyajapan.com/product/S-...5_SARB031.html

Looking forward to receiving it.

Word of caution to would be buyers: I found out they only accept Payapl or money order/check, and not straight up credit cards. It takes several days to get a Paypal account up and running and confirmed, so if you're even on the fence of purchasing from them, I suggest you get the Paypal account rolling. Nothing sucks more than having to wait to give somebody your money!

I plan to buy this watch but the gold one,must be nice.I hope it is a good value for a sub $500 watch.

 

[TGPlastic]

I own about eight or ten watches. I've got two Seiko 5 autos that get a fair amount of work and sport wear. I think they look good. Easy to wear under a suit. Fit and finish is very respectable. I don't think I paid more than $60 for either one. One is a silver satin face with matchsticks and the other is a dark blue with light arabic numbers on the hours. Both have display backs. Both came on bracelets but sometimes live for a few months on straps. (I have about 6 straps in the 18mm size.) I also have two Seiko divers: one massive, vintage, mid-seventies automatic on a rubber strap and one very recent ultra-high accuracy quartz perpetual calendar. The old diver has a lot of soul but is a bit rough and really huge. The new diver is very cool because it's accurate to 20 seconds a year and always knows what day it is. I have much respect for the Seikos. I think that in the USA market they are undervalued. Other watches in the stable include a Corum Bubble, an Omega Seamster auto black with sword hands, a vintage Tudor Submariner, and a couple of old tanks in various states of repair. Maybe that's more than ten.

In short, yeah. I think Seiko is good.

 

[musicguy]

Originally Posted by Mr.K

I decided to give Seiko a try again, since I have not owned one in years. I wanted a chronograph that had the look of the IWC and decided on an Asian market watch from Ebay. I really wanted the IWC, but cannot justify the price now compared to the 90.00 dollars this watch cost me. It is a little light compared to the other watches I own, but it should hopefully last a long time and take a good beating.

I like that watch a lot, Mr.K. It's a SNN079P2 right? Is that an aftermarket band?

 

[Mr.K]

Originally Posted by musicguy

I like that watch a lot, Mr.K. It's a SNN079P2 right? Is that an aftermarket band?


Yes that is the style number for the watch. I liked how it looks similar to the IWC I want. The band is aftermarket. It came on a black nylon band. It will go on for the summer, but for now I wanted the brown leather. For the money I don't think one can go wrong with this watch style.

 

[davidsj]

Just spoke to someone at Seiya (there was a minor glitch with PayPal, what a surprise). Spoke surpisingly good English and very helpful. Guy even told me, "I want to send your watch out to you today so please let's try again." Already looks promising.

 

[gilwood]

This is the watch I've had for 5 years. I got it for $125 on a price mistake (was supposed to be $725). It's a beautiful watch and it's held up wonderfully. I did buy some other stuff from that watch retailer afterwards since I felt guilty.

 

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by Levator Superioris

I am going to go against the grain, my experience with seiko has been anything but reliable. I had a titanium automatic whose face would come loose and get destroyed by the hands, this happened 3 times until the repair store refunded my money and refused to touch it. The automatic divers (seamaster look alike) needed cleaning after 5 years as it was loosing up to five minutes a day.
Shame on the watchmaker (it pains me to call him a "watchmaker"). Dials are held onto movements by "feet" which are actually two metal pins that protrude from the back of the dial. Nearly all dials are metal, as are the pins which are soldered or brazed onto it (one of the first steps done well before the finished face is applied). These "feet" set down into holes in the movement and setscrews at 90 degrees to the pins hold the dial onto the movement. Nearly four dozen watches of various brands and qualities, and nary a dial has ever come loose from its movements. That's not to say it's never happened to anyone (just not to me). The usual failure mode is extreme shock that breaks a pin off the back of the dial and it flops around. Never heard of both pins breaking off. Also possible is both setscrews coming loose (but very unlikely). Nevertheless, a good watchmaker who is actually highly trained and qualified to work on watches internally . . . not a band and battery changer . . . would have permanently fixed this the first time around. If the pins were sheared from the back of the dial (more likely scenario), the dial should be replaced as the finish on the front would be heat damaged if they were soldered back on (nearly all dials are metal plates underneath; exceptions are Citizen Eco-Drives which are powered by light and the dials are translucent). Rather than do the right thing, it's highly likely (from your description) that he simply reattached the dial to the movement using small adhesive pads. Not good as this is a quick & dirty fix that isn't very durable over time (worse yet would be gluing a dial back on using permanent adhesive . . . e.g. SuperGlue . . . most work on a watch movement requires removing hands and dial). If the setscrews were loose, and couldn't be tightened because of stripped threads, a good watchmaker worthy of the title would replace them, and if necessary (because of thread damage) tap oversize holes in the movement and use slightly larger diameter screws than the originals . . . and would have the tools to do this, and do it right. Either way, the dial would not come off again, not unless there was sufficient shock delivered to the watch that things like hands and dial indices would be knocked off or cause substantial, internal movement damage. Bottom line: time to find a new watchmaker. Pick one carefully. They're getting harder to find . . . too many around who call themselves watchmakers that aren't qualified to do much more than change batteries (in quartz watches) and bands.