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Science going into law school?

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by JChance, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Huntsman

    Huntsman Senior member

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    Most of my friend who went to law degree have done it after phd... (yea, I don't know what's wrong with them [​IMG] , but back to the point). It is my understanding that if you want to be in IP, a BS/MS in engineering is sufficient, but if you want to be doing anything related to bio/pharmctical you will need phd. Is this not the case?
    Yeah, that's pretty much what my understanding is -- the degree preferences in IP (note that I don't say requirements) vary by field, with bio/pharma/chem weighing more heavily toward advanced degrees and the mechanical disciplines leaning most heavily toward acceptance of mere baccalaureate degrees. I wish I had a Master's, but more for my own satisfaction than anything else, I suppose.
    by the way just wanted to add to this. I went to phd program in engineering because I wasn't looking for a job at the time. I left phd program to find myself out, end up in finance, just because I wanted to try something new, never knew if it was the wrong or right choice though...
    Hard part is, we never really know. I worry about using law as a place to 'find yourself' because it is a big commitment of time, money, and energy that you really don't get a lot out of if you bail. An advanced degree in one's field is at least an extension of skills in a better-known area.
     
  2. Reborn

    Reborn Senior member

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    Most of my friend who went to law degree have done it after phd... (yea, I don't know what's wrong with them [​IMG] , but back to the point). It is my understanding that if you want to be in IP, a BS/MS in engineering is sufficient, but if you want to be doing anything related to bio/pharmctical you will need phd. Is this not the case? disclaimer all of my friend have done their phd in engineering, so I was just told 2nd hand information. Most of them wish they would have only done a one year m.s. straight out undergrad and went to jd program directly had they knew it's where they're going to end up anyway
    Girlfriend's is at a T14 and her roommate just got hired doing bio/pharma IP with a BS and some prior work in patents after undergrad. Not sure if she is just an anomaly or if this type of thing happens at other top schools.
     
  3. dagman1

    dagman1 Well-Known Member

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    Whether this is sound advice or not depends entirely on his reasons for wanting to go to law school and his expectations. If his hope/expectation is to put in his his three years of school and then be handed a job as an associate at an established firm making $XXX,XXX, this is a sound analysis. If not, then maybe not. Believe it or not, that's not the only path followed by law school graduates.

    The most sage advice you'll ever get is to go to the best school you can possibly get admitted to. I cannot emphasize this enough. I'm not here to debate whether that's justified or not. It's just the way it is. The competition for associate positions (at firms of all sizes and jobs of all pay scales) is fierce. At the moment, there is an oversupply of law students and a huge pool of laid off lawyers looking for work.

    And finally I'll suggest you completely ignore any type of "employment" stats these schools want to push on you. It's well known that all of the schools blatantly lie to increase their rankings. They count a failure to respond by apathetic students as "employed", as well as those doing document review for $15 an hour, or just working at the local Burger King. These schools are morally bankrupt and don't care who they mislead.

    The best way you can protect yourself is walk into this with your eyes wide open so you don't end up deceived, pissed-off, feeling ripped-off, and broke.
     
  4. crazyquik

    crazyquik Senior member

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    The most sage advice you'll ever get is to go to the best school you can possibly get admitted to. I cannot emphasize this enough. I'm not here to debate whether that's justified or not. It's just the way it is. The competition for associate positions (at firms of all sizes and jobs of all pay scales) is fierce. At the moment, there is an oversupply of law students and a huge pool of laid off lawyers looking for work.

    And finally I'll suggest you completely ignore any type of "employment" stats these schools want to push on you. It's well known that all of the schools blatantly lie to increase their rankings. They count a failure to respond by apathetic students as "employed", as well as those doing document review for $15 an hour, or just working at the local Burger King. These schools are morally bankrupt and don't care who they mislead.

    The best way you can protect yourself is walk into this with your eyes wide open so you don't end up deceived, pissed-off, feeling ripped-off, and broke.


    Quoted so he will read it twice.
     
  5. rjakapeanut

    rjakapeanut Senior member

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    The most sage advice you'll ever get is to go to the best school you can possibly get admitted to. I cannot emphasize this enough. I'm not here to debate whether that's justified or not. It's just the way it is. The competition for associate positions (at firms of all sizes and jobs of all pay scales) is fierce. At the moment, there is an oversupply of law students and a huge pool of laid off lawyers looking for work.

    this is bad advice. you shouldn't simply go to the best school you can get into. there are a ton of factors that could lead a reasonable man to a lower ranked school for various reasons.

    And finally I'll suggest you completely ignore any type of "employment" stats these schools want to push on you. It's well known that all of the schools blatantly lie to increase their rankings. They count a failure to respond by apathetic students as "employed", as well as those doing document review for $15 an hour, or just working at the local Burger King. These schools are morally bankrupt and don't care who they mislead.

    The best way you can protect yourself is walk into this with your eyes wide open so you don't end up deceived, pissed-off, feeling ripped-off, and broke.


    this is good advice, though.
     
  6. Kyoung05

    Kyoung05 Senior member

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    The most sage advice you'll ever get is to go to the best school you can possibly get admitted to. I cannot emphasize this enough. I'm not here to debate whether that's justified or not. It's just the way it is. The competition for associate positions (at firms of all sizes and jobs of all pay scales) is fierce. At the moment, there is an oversupply of law students and a huge pool of laid off lawyers looking for work.
    this is bad advice. you shouldn't simply go to the best school you can get into. there are a ton of factors that could lead a reasonable man to a lower ranked school for various reasons.
    Actually, it is good advice. If someone is looking to be the most attractive candidate upon graduation, all things being equal (which is really to say costs being equal), one should always go to the best ranked school to which they are admitted. None of the other "factors," i.e. how good their IP program might be, or how well-regarded their writing program is, or how "diverse" they are, etc. will positively affect a graduate's attractiveness to employers. Most top employers really only care about (i) grades, (ii) school prestige, and (iii) law review/moot court, much in the same way law schools only care about (i) gpa, and (ii) LSAT scores in terms of admissions criteria. To say that an employer will look beyond your school's US News ranking to see how well-regarded they are in terms of some meaningless factor, i.e. diversity, is like saying law schools care about where you did your undergrad. They won't, and they don't. So, at the end of the day, if you're looking to be the most desirable candidate upon graduation (actually, you'll be looking to be the best candidate during the fall of your 2L year), go to the best school you get into, and get the best grades that you can.
     
  7. rjakapeanut

    rjakapeanut Senior member

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    i mean you're right if that's your intention. all i'm saying is it isn't always the best idea to automatically go to the best school that accepts you. there are factors that could potentially make going to another school more attractive. maybe a situation where less debt would be incurred, the law school is located in a region you are set on practicing in etc. etc.

    but yeah we're kind of arguing two different things here.
     
  8. JChance

    JChance Senior member

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    How did you get started in RA? Did u need any experience prior to RA or did u go for the certificate?

    I work in regulatory affairs - feel free to ask if you have specific questions.
     
  9. ConcernedParent

    ConcernedParent Senior member

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    Actually, it is good advice. If someone is looking to be the most attractive candidate upon graduation, all things being equal (which is really to say costs being equal), one should always go to the best ranked school to which they are admitted. None of the other "factors," i.e. how good their IP program might be, or how well-regarded their writing program is, or how "diverse" they are, etc. will positively affect a graduate's attractiveness to employers. Most top employers really only care about (i) grades, (ii) school prestige, and (iii) law review/moot court, much in the same way law schools only care about (i) gpa, and (ii) LSAT scores in terms of admissions criteria. To say that an employer will look beyond your school's US News ranking to see how well-regarded they are in terms of some meaningless factor, i.e. diversity, is like saying law schools care about where you did your undergrad. They won't, and they don't.

    So, at the end of the day, if you're looking to be the most desirable candidate upon graduation (actually, you'll be looking to be the best candidate during the fall of your 2L year), go to the best school you get into, and get the best grades that you can.


    i mean you're right if that's your intention. all i'm saying is it isn't always the best idea to automatically go to the best school that accepts you. there are factors that could potentially make going to another school more attractive. maybe a situation where less debt would be incurred, the law school is located in a region you are set on practicing in etc. etc.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. rjakapeanut

    rjakapeanut Senior member

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    there are other factors

    and costs are never equal so it's a dumb statement
     
  11. gungadin25

    gungadin25 Senior member

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    You might be able to find work as a patent agent. As a patent agent, you would prepare patent applications and handle the paperwork to get them issued as patents. Some firms will also pay for law school while you work as a patent agent, in addition to a high five-figure/low six-figure salary. However, on the bio/pharma side, they might require a Ph.D.


    PM me if you want to know specifics.
     
  12. JohnGalt

    JohnGalt Senior member

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    How did you get started in RA? Did u need any experience prior to RA or did u go for the certificate?

    Sorry for the delay in response.

    I ended up in RA quite by chance, so rather than discuss my history, I think it would be more beneficial to tell you what I have seen regarding new people entering the field. I've been in RA for close to 10 years, have my RAC and work for an F500. My experience is mostly with devices.

    RA is very difficult to get into without some sort of experience. Positions may stay open for a year or more despite hundreds of applicants. Very few companies are looking to bring in people with scientific backgrounds who are interested in RA without submission experience. With that being said, taking a scientific position with a company for a year or two can give you insight into their business processes and products and give you a leg up when applying as an internal applicant for an RA position.

    If you don't want to do that, as you probably know, many universities (e.g. Hopkins, USC, Northwestern) are now offering MS programs in RA and that is one route to take. At the very least, you gain familiarity with how things work and, most importantly, establish relationships in industry.
     
  13. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I agree with the advice to go to the best school you get into, with some caveats. First of all, if you're talking about schools in the same "micro-tiers" in the T14 (HYS, CCN, etc.), then circumstances and individual school qualities matter more than rank. Even going down a micro-tier can make sense. The exit opportunities will be quantitatively similar.

    Second, once you get down to schools that are unheard of outside their regions, I don't think U.S. News rankings matter a smidgen. At that point, cost and regional reputation should be determining factors.

    As to the OP's original question: if you want to do public service, do it for your own satisfaction, not to get into law school. Law school admissions is 97% about two numbers: your GPA and your LSAT score. Maybe 2% depends on where you went to undergrad. Your job experience or service to the community will affect your chances as much as whether the guy reading your application woke up with a cold.
     
  14. JChance

    JChance Senior member

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    Your job experience or service to the community will affect your chances as much as whether the guy reading your application woke up with a cold.

    HAHAHAHAHA, thanks for the advice, I'll definitely take the LSAT more seriously.
     
  15. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    HAHAHAHAHA, thanks for the advice, I'll definitely take the LSAT more seriously.

    The LSAT is absolutely the most important factor. Two or three points can be worth more than .10 of GPA. Just study the statistics in U.S. News.
     
  16. Huntsman

    Huntsman Senior member

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    ^ + 1 to Foo.

    Like I said. Logic Games book. Right now!!!!!!
     
  17. BigMac91

    BigMac91 New Member

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    It's a hassle but ever consider a 2 year PostBac?
     
  18. driveslowk

    driveslowk Senior member

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    http://nyu.lawschoolnumbers.com/appl...order=desc&p=4 There is a certain range of numbers where an applicant is basically an auto-admit. However, near the bottom of the range there are tons of applicants with the exact same LSAT and similar GPA's where other factors will come into play. In the link above you can look at current NYU applicants with scores of 170 and 169 (169 is the 25th percentile). There are a good number of people accepted, some rejected and others who are pending and will be waitlisted at this point. I was around the 75th percentile for the LSAT and GPA for Berkeley and was rejected. Obviously plenty of others got in with similar numbers: http://berkeley.lawschoolnumbers.com...order=desc&p=3 I had internships and fellowships during undergrad, but I think my undergrad institution was a factor in some of my applications even though I had a strong GPA. Putting things into perspective a typical school will have over 5000 applicants for around 300 spots. They will make around 1000 offers and wait list a ton of people. UCLA is a school where I know they weigh factors outside of GPA and LSAT much more heavily than other schools. Anyway, the LSAT is the only thing that you have control over that will make a huge difference in your application so that's the only thing you should worry about. Like mafoo said, two or three points will make the entire difference of how much money they offer you and what schools you get into.
     
  19. Huntsman

    Huntsman Senior member

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    I will never attend law school, but i still love reading about it and i find it very fascinating. You guys who're attending LS, please tell me more!
    Google video search "paper chase."
     
  20. harpsers

    harpsers Member

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    Law school is pretty awful. Like everything else in the law, its a rite of passage to be suffered through because those before you did so.
     

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