Schongeisterei-Harry Graf Kessler

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by LabelKing, Oct 9, 2006.

  1. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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    This surely is a profile, not of courage but of style. The Germans presumably called this Schongeisterei, which as English would have it, no appropriate translation exists.

    Do you mean Schoengeisterei? It literally translates as something like "spirit of beauty," and I think one would really say it means something akin to "loving or attentiveness to appearance..." or something like that.
     


  2. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Tennessee Williams was also like this in his later years, in direct opposition to his wanton youth and middle age.
    True. Although for some, as in the Count, it was always a bit of an hermetic lifestyle.

    I'd cite Marcel Proust but he was apt to hysterics.
     


  3. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Do you mean Schoengeisterei? It literally translates as something like "spirit of beauty," and I think one would really say it means something akin to "loving or attentiveness to appearance..." or something like that.
    Yes, rather like kunstwollen. English, unforunately, doesn't have any corresponding words.
     


  4. Fabienne

    Fabienne Senior member

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    Do you mean Schoengeisterei? It literally translates as something like "spirit of beauty," and I think one would really say it means something akin to "loving or attentiveness to appearance..." or something like that.

    Der Schöngeist = the aesthete.
    Schöngeistig = Aesthetic

    Aesthetics = die Ästhetik or Schöngeisterei
     


  5. Teacher

    Teacher Senior member

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    Der Schöngeist = the aesthete.
    Schöngeistig = Aesthetic

    Aesthetics = die Ästhetik or Schöngeisterei


    It's more than just aesthetics. It has more to do with fastidiousness or preoccupation, or something along those lines.
     


  6. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    Yes, rather like kunstwollen.

    English, unforunately, doesn't have any corresponding words.


    Actually if you see the word "Geist" used anywhere just give up translating immediately into any language. There was a time when Hegel still had a big foothold in English speaking academic circles around the turn of the 19th century when they commonly just used the word "Geist" verbatim in German.
     


  7. Fabienne

    Fabienne Senior member

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    It's more than just aesthetics. It has more to do with fastidiousness or preoccupation, or something along those lines.

    From the Webster's:

    an aesthete 1. a person highly sensitive to art and beauty. 2. a person who artificially cultivates artistic sensitivity or makes a cult of art and beauty.

    Sorry, I don't have my Dudens on hand.
     


  8. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    From the Webster's:

    an aesthete 1. a person highly sensitive to art and beauty. 2. a person who artificially cultivates artistic sensitivity or makes a cult of art and beauty.

    Sorry, I don't have my Dudens on hand.


    Dudens:

    Schoengeist

    jmd. der sich sichtbar nicht so sehr mit alltaeglichen Dingen beschaeftigt, sondern in Belletristik, Kunst o. ae. schwelgt, darin aufgeht u. dabei einen vergeistigten, intellektualistischen Eindruck macht.

    Schoengeisterei

    einseitige Betonung schoengeistiger Interessen.

    It's too late at night here in Oz for me to translate however.
     


  9. Fabienne

    Fabienne Senior member

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    Dudens:

    Schoengeist

    jmd. der sich sichtbar nicht so sehr mit alltaeglichen Dingen beschaeftigt, sondern in Belletristik, Kunst o. ae. schwelgt, darin aufgeht u. dabei einen vergeistigten, intellektualistischen Eindruck macht.

    Schoengeisterei

    einseitige Betonung schoengeistiger Interessen.

    It's too late at night here in Oz for me to translate however.


    Thanks!

    PS if you're still up: You woudn't happen to also have the Herkunftswörterbuch der deutschen Sprache?
     


  10. Swann

    Swann Senior member

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    Duden Herkunftswörterbuch:

    Schöngeist im 18. Jh. wie "schöner Geist", nach frz. bel esprit

    schöngeistig Anfang des 19. Jh.s für "belletristisch", im Gegensatz zu "Schöngeist" nicht ironisch gebraucht
     


  11. Fabienne

    Fabienne Senior member

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    Duden Herkunftswörterbuch:

    Schöngeist im 18. Jh. wie "schöner Geist", nach frz. bel esprit

    schöngeistig Anfang des 19. Jh.s für "belletristisch", im Gegensatz zu "Schöngeist" nicht ironisch gebraucht


    Das hatte ich mir gedacht! Ehrlich.

    I'm probably the only one who gets a smile out of such things.
     


  12. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    Das hatte ich mir gedacht! Ehrlich.

    I'm probably the only one who gets a smile out of such things.


    Point well taken but the moment you translate l'esprit into Geist it means something different. Just as le smoking and a smoking jacket are two quite different things.
     


  13. MrSmith2U

    MrSmith2U Well-Known Member

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    This is all jolly good fun! [​IMG]
    I was going to bed but I think I'll 'hang around' a tad longer.
     


  14. bengal-stripe

    bengal-stripe Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    but the moment you translate l'esprit into Geist it means something different.
    Ich bin der Geist, der stets verneint!
    Und das mit Recht; denn alles, was entsteht,
    ist wert, dass es zugrunde geht;
    Drum besser wär's, dass nichts entstünde.
    So ist denn alles, was ihr Sünde,
    Zerstörung, kurz, das Böse nennt,
    Mein eigentliches Element.
    - Mephistopheles in "Faust", J.W. Goethe 1338-1344

    I am the Spirit that denies!
    And rightly too; for all that doth begin
    should rightly to destruction run;
    'Twere better then that nothing were begun,
    Thus everything that you call Sin,
    Destruction - in a word, as Evil represent -
    That is my own, real element.
    - Mephistopheles in "Faust", J.W. Goethe 1338-1344
     


  15. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    "Weh! steck ich in dem Kerker noch?
    Verfluchtes dumpfes Mauerloch,
    Wo selbst das liebe Himmelslicht
    Trüb durch gemalte Scheiben bricht!
    Beschränkt mit diesem Bücherhauf,
    den Würme nagen, Staub bedeckt,
    Den bis ans hohe Gewölb hinauf
    Ein angeraucht Papier umsteckt;
    Mit Gläsern, Büchsen rings umstellt,
    Mit Instrumenten vollgepfropft,
    Urväter Hausrat drein gestopft -
    Das ist deine Welt! das heißt eine Welt!"
     


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