Scholar purpose: A discussion about Classic American Outerwear (Please contribute)

[MarcBT]

Hi guys Sorry, I dont know why I did not receive any notifcation about you posting in this thread. So I miss quite a lot.... My itw with Christophe Loiron is in French, I can "google trnslate" it if you want, but I'm not sure it will be accurate. I'm actually pretty surprise that most of you dont consider your consumption as escapism. I would have said so. I'm not saying this is the most important factor when you consider buying such products, but I thought it was somehow similar to white-collars Harley bikers, if you know what I mean. This is why I was talking about the "imagery" related to Classic American outerwear. I will send some questions to Daiki Suzuki tomorrow actually. I hope he will answer me. Thanks a lot again. Edit: here is the link to Loiron itw translated "thanks" to Google It's on a website I run, side project while I'm studying. Christophe Loiron's link to workwear is really mythologic, it's really a French dream about the blue-collar America, which is, I think, very interesting.

 

[zissou]

Thanks for the link to the story, Marc. It was a fun read, although the translation was a little difficult to read before having my coffee

I'm glad you asked Christophe why his clothes retail for such a relatively high price. That is something that is often criticized, especially by people who have never seen his clothes in person. As far as escapism, it just seems so fake. To use your example of white collared harley riders, I always have to roll my eyes when I see clean-cut guys with the pristine Harley jackets, stone washed jeans, and white sneakers riding down the road on their shiny Harley. I'm not saying they don't have a right to ride a Harley, it's just that they really look like they should be riding a Honda Gold Wing. With any style one chooses to wear, it helps if it actually fits with the lifestyle and possibly the surroundings in which one lives.

 

[MarcBT]

Google translate is not optimized yet eheh. Can cause some headaches...

So those people are somehow fake to you?
Style has to match with an according lifestyle?

By "escapism", I mean more than just a look, it is more about slipping in a different lifestyle that the one you have as a breadwinner, a style that helps balancing your life, in a certain way.

 

[Woofers]

Age: 31
Location: London, England
Occupation: Doctoral candidate and journalist

I've been buying clothing which could generally be called Americana (I don't know what to call the Ralph Lauren version, which apes Edwardian English country house style), ever since the 'workwear' trend in the early 1990s (92/93 if memory serves). In part I'm attracted to the functionalism (or in reality the appearance of functionalism) in the clothing but I think at a deeper level I'm attracted to a constructed vision of the past, a form of pseudo-nostalgia for a simpler way of life. In my own case I don't think it is coincidence that I'm a historian and that my period of interest really starts with gilded age America. I express no real desire to actually become a game keeper or merchant seaman or any of the other professions whose archive of professional clothing has been raided. I'm very aware of the grinding, tough realities of those lives which are occluded from the version of 'Americana' we share. What we're indulging in here is historical tourism and we are visiting a very disjointed historical construct. Personally I'm equally attracted to the fictionalised version of Edwardian to 1920s Englishness which Ralph Lauren has constructed (and which is equally inaccurate - you might want to check out the recent post called "the English Country House Look" on the blog 'A suitable wardrobe' to see what happens when someone attempts to draw generalised 'sociological' conclusions from an analysis of ralph lauren's fantasy, which they seem to treat as an accurate portrayal of some English style/way of life). There is something very appealing about these constructed versions of the period roughly stretching from the late nineteenth century through to the 1930s. But none of this should come as any surprise to us - part of the history of the US in the twentieth century has been about constructing its own romanticised past (as most countries, including the UK, actually do). Its hardly surprising that Daiki Suzuki (as perhaps the most influential interlocutor in terms of Americana) has picked up upon this conception of the US, which has been exported to the world (and also specifically Japan since c.1920s). i think there are also interesting comparisons with the 'Steampunk' genre (Engineered Garments and others have started introducing Edwardian elements to some of their jackets), which has seen a recent rise in popularity. Despite (or perhaps because of) all of this I'll continue to enjoy Woolrich Woolen Mills, Engineered Garments, RRL et al and continue to enjoy revelling in the simulacrum of the early twentieth century, it does after all offer a pleasant release...You might also want to check out the article from the NY Times ('This just in from the 1890s' - Dated 11 November 2009) it explores the Americana phenomenon, but not in much detail.

 

[ersatzmoe]

The Gap, Banana Republic, H&M, these are the brands that have made us all crave uniqueness and affinity towards proper craftsmanship.

This is a cursory review of some of the points that I will address. (1) the intimate knowledge one has about certain products or designers, (2) the quality of the garments, and (3) the nostalgia it produces.

The intimate knowledge one has of a brand can, but not necessarily, make one more likely to buy their products. Personally (and that means I have no evidence for it), when I go through some of the independent labels on the forum, whether it be Mauro's new jeans he's making or the TOJ threads, I feel very strongly towards supporting them, and having a piece of their work. This is an extreme example but it really underscores some of the intimacy you can have with the clothing you wear. When you interact with the designer and get a feel for who he is and his history, you appreciate the clothing that much more.

Having said that, a lot of the clothing that qualifies as classic Americana qualifies for this intimate knowledge. We know about the struggles the immigrants had when coming to the New World, we know about the looms they used (****, we're using the same looms now). We can still see an old man and talk to him about what it was like coming to the New World with no money.

I guess the first point is that we have a stronger affinity towards classic Americana as we have intimate knowledge of the product.

Second, quality.

It's been already mentioned that today's brands lack quality, and the most expensive clothing usually is incomparable to the quality of classic Americana wear.

I think there's some truth to that, when you look at the cliche brands such as Ed Hardy, True religion, G Star et al.

And, I think a gradual evolution towards cast iron looms is taking place, and that is being adopted first by smaller companies, that understand and seek to create a better cloth.

Finally, nostalgia.

As touched upon in the first point re: talking to an older man about his personal history, nostalgia is important. I know for me, I'm younger, I'm 23 and still in university, I have no connection to the gold rush, nor to the plight of immigrants into the New World.

However, when I watch any black and white video, or I see Clint Eastwood as the Man with No Name, I think that whatever he is wearing is the absolute ****. Maybe it's because Clint Eastwood is wearing it, or maybe because nobody cared too much what they wore back then, and that confidence is something we all try to aspire to today.

Modern companies that promote the classic Americana look, fulfill many of these requirements(?). Even though they have not been around for hundreds of years, they still have the quality, durability, and timelessness of many of the older brands.

 

[MarcBT]

Thanks Woofers & Ersatzmoe.

I have read the NYT article about the 1890s revival (I received my daily newsletter, Urban Eye, from NYT, which suprises me, in a good way, most of the time). All Americana from Japan is insightful too.

I think romanticization of the past is inherent to any society. It doesnt mean we are not able to conceive that those eras were ambiguous & different, both better & worst compared to the time we live in. I especially think about mpcec post writing about people being nostalgic without considering the drawbacks of an era.
Because most of you are talking about the past and about simpler times.

I think, you, ersatzmoe, summarize pretty well the core interests behind this look : quality, product intimacy & nostalgia, seem to be what you all agree about considering this thread & the info gathered accross the board.

 

[ersatzmoe]

Just an idea: If you're writing a peer-reviewed article, you may want to take advantage of spell-check.

 

[zissou]

^chances are, he's writing it in French.

 

[MarcBT]

Originally Posted by ersatzmoe

Just an idea: If you're writing a peer-reviewed article, you may want to take advantage of spell-check.


Yes I realized I typed too fast without checking if some letters were misplaced.
Thanks.

 

[ersatzmoe]

Ah. Gotcha.

Perhaps in your discussion write subheadings for different aspects of the psychology of buying.

I think another important note is the lack of cheap populism from advertisements that other brands have.

That is, you don't see adverts for classic Americana as much as you do from newer fashion houses, and that uniqueness, as mentioned before, has a certain allure to it.

Perhaps co-related is the utilitarian aspect of clothing. That may be worth exploring. (See: Removing stitches from Nudies, American Apparel's popularity, jeans without tabs etc.)

 

[Woofers]

Marc - I'd love to read a copy of your article/thesis when its completed it sounds very interesting (although I'm not sure if you are writing in French or English - my French is probably not good enough!)

Alex

 

[MarcBT]

I will post the pdf here of course.
It's actually almost done.

It will be in French, I'm sorry about that, especially considering the special way Google translates...

A question for all of you : do you mind if I quote you?

Some of your words are very interesting, hence my question.
I will only use your pseudo which preserves your privacy.

 

[Woofers]

Marc I'm happy to be quoted.

 

[dfagdfsh]

nice article and I appreciate the fact that you acted some thorough and piercing questions - not the usual bullshit PR that you see in most interviews. I'd love to read a better translated version if anyone wants to step up!

 

[zissou]

I doubt anyone would mind being quoted. I'm interested in reading even a not so great Google translation.