Scholar purpose: A discussion about Classic American Outerwear (Please contribute)

[MarcBT]

Anyone got time to answer me?

I know I should have some better incentives than "I'm a student I need your help", but unfortunately I dont.


If some you would be more loquacious with a one-to-one itw, let me know, I'm able to set up easily this.


Thank you anyway.

 

[LA Guy]

Originally Posted by MarcBT

Thanks all for the inputs.

If you dont mind, I'd like you to tell me more about the product itself, how you choose it and how you use it.

Hence, could you tell me if you only use it in an urban environment, in more country one, or both?
And what's your criteria when you are to pick the products? How do you choose a jacket for example? Why one brand over another etc.

Thanks a lot guys once again!

I pick up a piece that I think might look good on me, which means that I look for some specific features - hits at or just above the hips, has a standup collar or some sort (since I have a longish neck,) is a color that looks good on me, is made from a material I like (melton wool, moleskin, waxed cotton) - and try it on for size. If I like it, I look at the price, and decide how much I like it. Also, if I am looking for a winter jacket, I consider whether it will be warm enough, and how much layering I can do.

Certain brands I do look to first because they've historically had stuff I like, or in the case of Woolrich, because I knew that Daiki Suzuki was designing it.

I use my stuff everywhere, except when I am doing something technical, in which case I wear specialized, modern, technical gear.

 

[dixonmanor]

^^

Yeah, I wear my clothes in both urban and country environments... I can only afford one wardrobe.

For me utility is pretty key. I seem to overheat easily, and synthetics make me sweat like crazy. So, I look for natural fibers that can stand up to the elements where I live. Growing up in rainy Portland, this meant waxed cotton. Now living in Chicago, this means layers (of wool, more wool and waxed cotton).

Typically, the only modern "technical" clothing I wear is from Smartwool and Ibex, or similar companies that make lightweight merino wool garments. I wear wool year 'round, as it is a good temperature regulator, is anti-microbial, and absorbs water well... it doesn't get soggy like cotton can. I feel totally comfortable wearing this stuff in the city as well as in the country.

 

[mlyngard]

Originally Posted by phoenixrecon

We first should define classic American clothing. Some would consider 1912 Levis classic Americana and some would consider the 1950s style classic. Are we focusing on a certain decade of clothing styles or are we discussing it as a whole.

Some may not consider 60s clothing trends classic and some may not consider 70s trends classic, while others will. I however think of the prime American clothing area as the 1950s.

Phoenix has boiled it down in the fist reponse. So if you want 'big picture' first here's my two cents:

From an socio-anthropological point of view, America has redefined itself a thousand times since it's inception, essentially due to the absorbtion of different immigrant types as well as our varying international involvement. So, the 'era' we look at is as specific to "American Workwear" as the region.

Another thought: there's the reality of regional Americana, and then the perception other cultures have of us. The way 'American' is percieved by other cultures is due mostly to their limited experience of Americans and the West through movies, post-war occupation and/or soldiers being stationed there after wars.

A culture's exports define them. And America has only truly definied itself in this century through our conscious export of an American way of life we want the world to see. It's hard to separate the two...

Think: Japanese post-war occupation and their keen adoption of Americana. Cuban obsession with '50's American cars. Eastern Europe and blue jeans. The French and Jerry Lewis (?). Coca Cola, Marlboro. Marylin Monroe. James Dean. Rock 'n' Roll.

Think about the varying perceptions the world has of the British in different cultures over their Empire. In just this generation alone: Sid Vicious, Paul McCartney, Princess Di, Spice Girls, Monty Python, Guiness, the Mini.

 

[zissou]

Originally Posted by MarcBT

Hence, could you tell me if you only use it in an urban environment, in more country one, or both?
And what's your criteria when you are to pick the products? How do you choose a jacket for example? Why one brand over another etc.
As far as how I choose the outerwear, aside from the qualities I've already mentioned, fit is a huge factor. I am tall and skinny, and it's pretty easy for average sized clothes to look ridiculous on me. So, I pay a lot of attention to measurements. Aside from that, I definitely prefer durable, all natural materials such as cotton and wool. The reasons I choose Mister Freedom and Engineered Garments over other brands is because they have the aesthetic I mentioned previously.

I use the clothes in both an urban and country environment as well. I try to have a fairly small amount of clothes, so I look for things I can wear pretty much anywhere. Probably the only time I do not opt for my workwear is when I'm off doing technical things like hiking or skiing. The elements can be harsh here, so it's best to dress appropriately.

 

[Superb0bo]

I think one of the points for me with classic american outerwear (which for me also includes the likes of Barbour and swedish Fjällräven) is that its easy to wear, it looks equally right if you are 20 or 50 and it fits in most contexts if you not go overboard (which I have been guilty of at more than one occasion), as the materials are durable and doesnt requrie much care while looking good. For that reason, I would wear pretty much the same stuff in the city when its rainy or dreary as I would out in the country side.

Plaid/denim shirt, cardigan, normal/loose fit jeans or canvas pants, boots or some kind of boat moc deal. 60/40 parka or canvas jacket on top of that.

In my case, i think there´s some regression to the mean deal going on, as I seem to reach more for the more normal stuff than the "vintage" like. Classic /workwear turned classic/casual.

 

[shoreman1782]

The trend begs for analysis as back-to-our-roots or a turning away from slick style, but like many expensive trends it's aspirational.

The stealth wealth/old money angle of some of this stuff has always been there. Barbours (not american, I know) were pretty standard for the Main Line/Gladwyn kids I knew grewing up, and the people who were buying from LL Bean 70 years ago were the people who could afford to spend a week in a hunting lodge. Although those clothes, being functional, mesh well with more work-focused stuff (i.e., pointer brand, carhartt) they're really different animals. I'm a catholic kid with cheap parents, but I'm happy to look like I might just drive a vintage landcruiser to my cabin next weekend.

Also, what qualifies as aspirational clothing these days is pretty complicated. Ed Hardy/Audigier stuff is pricey and showy, but it's inspired by tattoo artists and 20th c. counterculture, which is easy to forget considering the demographic that wears it. Stuff like prada linea rossa etc. is really out with the styleforum crowd (it's too slick, not good value, favored by undesirables

), but that's not any more expensive than EG. People who are buying new americana are making a conscious choice not to look like they care too much, but obv we do. It may not seem as put together as a monotone head-to-toe, body-conscious outfit, but it often is.

 

[Crane's]

Marc,

I wear the so called Americana style of clothes for a completely different reason than most. I'm an avid outdoorsman and spend most of my leisure time hunting, fishing, hiking etc. I was also in construction for a long time, that is until it all came to a crashing end. Anyway, the clothing brands I mentioned earlier are for people who do what I do so it is only sensible that I wear them. They are designed to keep me warm and dry in lousy cold ass weather while maintaining freedom of movement. On the flip side when it's desert hot outside I can still work and play in relative comfort. On top of all this the clothing is durable which is also a requirement. Then there is the price. All of them are priced reasonably for what you get.

 

[MarcBT]

Originally Posted by Crane's

Marc,

I wear the so called Americana style of clothes for a completely different reason than most. I'm an avid outdoorsman and spend most of my leisure time hunting, fishing, hiking etc. I was also in construction for a long time, that is until it all came to a crashing end. Anyway, the clothing brands I mentioned earlier are for people who do what I do so it is only sensible that I wear them. They are designed to keep me warm and dry in lousy cold ass weather while maintaining freedom of movement. On the flip side when it's desert hot outside I can still work and play in relative comfort. On top of all this the clothing is durable which is also a requirement. Then there is the price. All of them are priced reasonably for what you get.

Crane's thank for that.
Actually, I was about to ask you all a question related to the use you do of your clothing and you leisure time.
It seems most of you are urban guys, and you all seem to have country leisure, is it most of your leisure time? Hunting, forest walking and things like that?

And is buying classic outerwear (besides of product quality, and the timeless aspect of the clothes) somehow a way to justify or to anticipate this country leisure time?

Example, I'm student living in urban cities, and I'm consumer of brands such as Filson, Pendelton, Woolrich (mostly Vintage) and somehow this is a way for me to devote a part of time to those types of leisure even though these are not my main activities.

 

[MarcBT]

Anyone?

 

[mpcec]

Hey Marc, figured my answer is kind of obvious but since you can't make assumptions about me in your thesis I'll answer anyways. I don't have really any 'country' leisure time. Go on maybe one vacation a year for a few days in nantucket and I'm wearing a bathing suit and tee shirts most the time there. I used to take my dog for walks/ hikes all the time but I think my dog was more the excuse for that then my clothing and her anticipation and excitement for going was what got me into doing it more often, not the fact that I was wearing classic outerwear. After my dog passed away I started hiking/ forest walking less and really only do it now when I'm dog sitting for my brother or if it pops into my head.

 

[zissou]

I'm a bit opposite of you, Marc. I live in a rural setting, and do much of my recreation here, but I definitely like to spend a fair amount (maybe half?) of my leisure time in the city. So, I think much of what I wear can fit both settings. I find myself at home both walking country trails or buying fancy chocolate at the Italian market in the city.

 

[LA Guy]

I live in the state with the most wilderness area of all the USA save Alaska, so although I live in a relatively urbanized area, I don't have to go very far to get to either farmland or true wilderness. I started wearing Engineered Garments when I lived in Boston, however, and my habits haven't changed that much. I wear my Woolrich jacket when I'm schlepping around town, when I got to Seattle or NYC, or when I'm taking a walk in the woods. However, I'm not actually particularly attracted to non-extreme outdoor activities, and the outdoor activities that I am interested in definitely require specialized, modern gear. So I actually wear my WWM or EG more when I am not participating in "country leisure" activities.

 

[mpcec]

Been thinking about this topic again lately. Really wish I could hear the perspective from the Japanese/ asian public. Timpoblete if you read this I would be very interested in hearing your input. Also Marc could you post up your interview with Christophe and any other relevant interviews you've done? You should get in touch with Daiki if that's at all possible (probably telling you something you already know here).

 

[Drinkwaters]

Good morning MarcBT et alii,

First of all, let me say thank you for encouraging such an insightful thread on an interesting topic.
As a retailer, these types of focus topics help us better understand market trends and where to place our next foot, so to say.
I will not go as far as to say that I incubated a brand, a lifestyle, a culture or even a momentum towards the aspiration of the Workwear esthetic but I helped cultivate it here on SF when I introduced EG on this forum in 2004.
I am about to turn 56, so I am probably the oldest member here that embraces this "Look" (I say this only in the context that in my profession, I have to focus on consumption and sometimes that capitalizes on what is trending and not meant to offend anyone)
I am Liberal and live and work in the Republic of Cambridge and Jamaica Plain.
I grew up in an aspiring Middle Class background.
Was a die hard 60's-70's era Hippie.
I schooled myself in Art
Spent most of my leisure life with homesteading friends in the back woods of Maine.
I am an avid outdoorsmen and mountaineer.
The only hunting I ever did was as a teen with my Daisy BB gun on an innocent squirrel or sparrow.

It's really not fair to generalize your question about the Imagery that this esthetic conjures because as some have already confessed it is a lot about a comfort level with your outer skin. This could be taken a couple of ways, by how comfortable you actually are in them and how comfortable you are projecting an image of who you are.
So, I will make a bold statement and say that the imagery is quite frankly "Escapism".
I will use myself as an example. My background has always been casual. I work in a professional setting where my "projection" isn't always what I'm comfortable in but when I can, I elude to mode of dress that befits my sole. On weekends, I long to wear my vintage Pendletons or put on a pair of hiking boots and get lost above tree line. My tunnel to my other world.

I have to go now and will contribute more when I have some time. Gonna sell some EG today. Cheers!