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Say you're caught shoplifting on an illegally-placed camera?

longskate88

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Just one of those things I've always wondered about, say you were caught shoplifting from a department store, after one of their employees reviews a camera placed in the store.... Only caveat is is the camera was concealed, and/or in a place where cameras are not allowed (restroom, fitting room, etc). There was no notice of cameras being used in the area, and a reasonable person expects there to be no cameras in the private rooms. Who wins, and why? Is the thief charged for shoplifting, the store for 'spying' (or whatever you call it), or both? What if you were an employee who was not aware there were cameras is use? Thanks!
 

turboman808

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I had an incident at a Century 21 where I was seriously considering sueing then. Not that I stole anything though. I guess they have this policy that you cannot try on packaged dress shirts. Went to the dressing room and no one was there so I just walked in. I was half undressed when the security barged into the room demanding I give them the shirts. Slightly off topic but I was pretty dam mad that they would show such a lack of personal privacy.

The manager apologized and even offered some gift cards. I was so mad I turned them down. That was stupid because now that I am over being mad I shop there all the time LOL


Little off topic but it was an invasion of privacy in a department store. I don't know where the cameras where that saw me either???
 

MetroStyles

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Originally Posted by turboman808
I had an incident at a Century 21 where I was seriously considering sueing then. Not that I stole anything though. I guess they have this policy that you cannot try on packaged dress shirts. Went to the dressing room and no one was there so I just walked in. I was half undressed when the security barged into the room demanding I give them the shirts. Slightly off topic but I was pretty dam mad that they would show such a lack of personal privacy.

The manager apologized and even offered some gift cards. I was so mad I turned them down. That was stupid because now that I am over being mad I shop there all the time LOL


Little off topic but it was an invasion of privacy in a department store. I don't know where the cameras where that saw me either???


You don't think they maybe just saw you taking a packaged shirt to the changing room?
 

longskate88

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Originally Posted by MetroStyles
You don't think they maybe just saw you taking a packaged shirt to the changing room?


Suppose they DID see him on a hidden camera, but used that as a defense? That's pretty BS though, I'd be pissed if someone barged in on me.
 

AintDatRite

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Originally Posted by longskate88
Just one of those things I've always wondered about, say you were caught shoplifting from a department store, after one of their employees reviews a camera placed in the store....

Only caveat is is the camera was concealed, and/or in a place where cameras are not allowed (restroom, fitting room, etc). There was no notice of cameras being used in the area, and a reasonable person expects there to be no cameras in the private rooms.

Who wins, and why? Is the thief charged for shoplifting, the store for 'spying' (or whatever you call it), or both? What if you were an employee who was not aware there were cameras is use?

Thanks!


I dont understand why you think they are illegal.... Generally, in the US, it is legal to monitor dressing rooms; however, a store must do the following:

1) use same-sex personnel to monitor their customers (women monitor the women's dressing rooms and men monitor men's dressing rooms); and,

2) the security systems need to be 'tapeless', meaning that the person watching through the camera can see what's going on, but can not keep a tape of what they're viewing.

They do NOT have to inform you that you are on camera. Hell, the 'average' person is caught on video in this country several times per day... Recording a conversation or phone call is a completely different matter and each state has their own laws regarding that.
 

longskate88

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Originally Posted by AintDatRite
I dont understand why you think they are illegal.... Generally, in the US, it is legal to monitor dressing rooms; however, a store must do the following: 1) use same-sex personnel to monitor their customers (women monitor the women's dressing rooms and men monitor men's dressing rooms); and, 2) the security systems need to be 'tapeless', meaning that the person watching through the camera can see what's going on, but can not keep a tape of what they're viewing. They do NOT have to inform you that you are on camera. Hell, the 'average' person is caught on video in this country several times per day... Recording a conversation or phone call is a completely different matter and each state has their own laws regarding that.
So you can have a view into a woman's dressing room (i.e., watching them undress, etc), providing only a woman is watching, and there is no tape? I suppose no tape= no evidence though, correct? Ive seen cameras monitoring the ENTRANCE to the fitting room area, but never placed such that it could see into an individual stall.
 

AintDatRite

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Originally Posted by longskate88
So you can have a view into a woman's dressing room, providing only a woman is watching, and there is no tape? I suppose no tape= no evidence though, correct?

Yes, you can have a video monitoring system on the women's dressing room - as long as it is monitored by a female (men's dressing room monitored by a male). No, 'no tape = no evidence'. The eye witness' testimony, under oath, of the security officer/guard that he/she witnessed the offense would generally be accepted as evidence. Just as an eye witness to a murder wouldnt have to present a videotape....

Ive seen cameras monitoring the ENTRANCE to the fitting room area, but never placed such that it could see into an individual stall.
Well, here is a surprise then - a LOT of retailers have cameras installed in the ceilings over the dressing rooms. (That way, they can see your actions without the operators being able to 'focus in' on various body parts....). The cameras are tiny - hell, I have a nanny cam - that is basically a corporate security camera - that is smaller than a penny. The camera opening is the size of a pinhole... and its easily concealed inside a smoke detector.
 

Johnny_5

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My best friend is in charge of "Loss Prevention" at Lord and Taylor. All the cameras record and it is all kept as evidence (on a DVR that can burn to dvds to be exact). Before they apprehend you, they have already been following you for a while. I have seen the videos of the shit people do subconsciously when they are doing something wrong (shoplifting) and it's amazing, and a dead giveaway. That is when they start tailing you. There is always one person watching on the camera while the other is following the suspect. Loss prevention associates have the right to use force, and handcuff you if they feel threatened (IE you used a sharp object or tool to cut off security tags, or you are acting in a threatening manner), They usually won't call the police unless you pulled a really serious job, you run, or are an asshole. Most of the time they just make you sign a statement with confession, and pay like $300. If you refuse they just call the cops and let them deal with you.

I'm sorry if this doesnt make much sense I am very drunk.
 

Nouveau Pauvre

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^ For some reason that post made me very happy. You're a true mensch.
 

Tangfastic

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Surely you would pay the fine / serve the term for the offence you've been found guilty on and treat the breach of privacy as a separate matter.

In the UK I'm pretty sure that any evidence from surveillance systems is inadmissable for evidence on its own except in serious terrorism related cases. I think this is due to the basic unreliabilty of evidence that is so easy to tamper with.
 

Gradstudent78

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Originally Posted by AintDatRite
Yes, you can have a video monitoring system on the women's dressing room - as long as it is monitored by a female (men's dressing room monitored by a male). No, 'no tape = no evidence'. The eye witness' testimony, under oath, of the security officer/guard that he/she witnessed the offense would generally be accepted as evidence. Just as an eye witness to a murder wouldnt have to present a videotape....



Well, here is a surprise then - a LOT of retailers have cameras installed in the ceilings over the dressing rooms. (That way, they can see your actions without the operators being able to 'focus in' on various body parts....). The cameras are tiny - hell, I have a nanny cam - that is basically a corporate security camera - that is smaller than a penny. The camera opening is the size of a pinhole... and its easily concealed inside a smoke detector.


It depends on state law if it is legal or not.
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...oms-legal.html
 

Jekyll

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Originally Posted by AintDatRite
use same-sex personnel to monitor their customers (women monitor the women's dressing rooms and men monitor men's dressing rooms)

This doesn't really make sense. I mean, I kinda understand why they do it that way, but what if the employee watching is gay?
 

Jumbie

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Imma do a sexy strip tease next time I try something on.
 

AintDatRite

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Originally Posted by Jekyll
This doesn't really make sense. I mean, I kinda understand why they do it that way, but what if the employee watching is gay?

Lets see... a male working in retail... hmmm... BUT, thats just how they've handled it so far. Its the same thing at the airport - if you refuse to walk through the full body scanner that basically shows 'all that you have' on the security monitors, you are searched by a same-sex TSA officer.

If you arent familiar with the new airport scanners, its basically a full body x-ray that allows them to see through your clothing... The TSA says it protects privacy by blurring passengers' faces and deleting images right after viewing. Yet the images are detailed, clearly showing a person's gender. According to a TSA spokesperson: "You can actually see the sweat on someone's back" and "all anatomical features are shown,". I have a feeling that these scanners will be used in other settings in the future - not just airport and courthouse security, as they are today.
 

tiecollector

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Originally Posted by Johnny_5
My best friend is in charge of "Loss Prevention" at Lord and Taylor. All the cameras record and it is all kept as evidence (on a DVR that can burn to dvds to be exact). Before they apprehend you, they have already been following you for a while. I have seen the videos of the shit people do subconsciously when they are doing something wrong (shoplifting) and it's amazing, and a dead giveaway. That is when they start tailing you. There is always one person watching on the camera while the other is following the suspect. Loss prevention associates have the right to use force, and handcuff you if they feel threatened (IE you used a sharp object or tool to cut off security tags, or you are acting in a threatening manner), They usually won't call the police unless you pulled a really serious job, you run, or are an asshole. Most of the time they just make you sign a statement with confession, and pay like $300. If you refuse they just call the cops and let them deal with you.

I'm sorry if this doesnt make much sense I am very drunk.


I'm curious to know what people do subconsciously. A quick google search was not fruitful.
 

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