Sartorial temptations never taken

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Film Noir Buff, Oct 22, 2008.

  1. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Historically this sort of cuff on my suit sleeve goes back a long way but it was perfected by two of the best dressed gentlemen in NYC during the 1950s, co-proprietors of a high end clothing company and by another company out of California who also sold in the very best stores in NYC during the 1960s-70s. It was adopted by Brooks Brothers exactly how you see it pictured above as the best version of the turnback cuff for the suit sleeve.

    Can you name names for once in your life? Who were these "best dressed gentlemen"? Night club owners?

    [​IMG] Yeah, and on Savile Row, too.

    This makes no sense. The Flusser cuff is phony because it has a seam whereas yours is correct because it is a sewn on seperate piece? Wouldn't that have to have a seam too?

    Translation, "I admit that Tarmac is right."

    You are the first person I have ever come accross to express concern about the silhouette of his sleeves and to assert that they needed slimming.
     
  2. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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    Here are some examples of cuff styles from a 1900 cutters guide. The Flusser example is in there but so are a lot of others including examples with cut through buttons. [​IMG]
    Thanks for that. Basically a reaffirmation of what I've always known. But be charitable, he doesn't know any better. [​IMG]
     
  3. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    If someone doesn't like it, that's fine but this is a unique, subtle, custom detail.[​IMG]

    Why is the bottom button so seperated from the other three?

    It jumps out at me, and not in good way. Is that the way Brooks Brothers did their version?


    - B
     
  4. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Thanks for that.

    Basically a reaffirmation of what I've always known. But be charitable, he doesn't know any better. [​IMG]


    Is that a reference to me? I thought you never referenced me?!? [​IMG]

    By the way, which is it? Do you want to blame that atrocity on "two well dressed gentlemen" from the '50s, or on a 1900 pattern book? Which, incidentally, does not show the configuration you got. And all of those sleeves look like they are from sports clothes or military uniforms, not a business or lounge suit, which in any case scarecely existed at the time.

    And, oh one more thing, isn't it a bit rich for you of all people to run to the authoity of a 1900 pattern book given your endless bloviation in the shawl lapel thread about all those losers who are constantly just aping the past and have no style of their own?
     
  5. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Is that the way Brooks Brothers did their version?

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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    Why is the bottom button so seperated from the other three? It jumps out at me, and not in good way. Is that the way Brooks Brothers did their version? - B
    That jumps out at you more than than the Flusser version? Like I said above my cuff is so flat that Nino had to tilt the stripes to misalign them so you would even notice it. The button is sewn onto the sleeve below and goes through the cuff to allow for removal at a point in the future of the wearer's choosing. The new buttonhole would be cut closer to the other three to allow the more typical button stance. It has to be a little further forward to allow the back edge of the cuff to lie flat without the second sleeve button interrupting it. Savile Row's cost cutting techniques are well known. In England, Nino Corvato's garments are marveled over as items of tailoring beauty. Nino also maintains that this is a very high end tailoring skill and that anyone who says otherwise is a person who understands nothing about design and does not appreciate quality tailoring. That's the way Brooks Brothers did it, well back when Brooks had the High American taste it was known for.
     
  7. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    [​IMG] Yeah, and on Savile Row, too.

    Those Brit rascals...they only do it for The Suitably Wardrobed Elite.

    [​IMG]

    BTW, why do you think the buttonholes are spaced regularly? Absence of afterthought? Presence of thought?


    - B
     
  8. Film Noir Buff

    Film Noir Buff Senior member

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    Those Brit rascals...they only do it for The Suitably Wardrobed Elite. [​IMG] BTW, why do you think the buttonholes are spaced regularly? Absence of afterthought? Presence of thought? - B
    I like this too. Where does this come from? The did the cuff slightly above the end button.
     
  9. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    FNB, can you explain why the other way is a cheap shortcut? Unless I am misunderstanding how it is done, it seems to me to be harder to do. The Flusser/A&S way, the cuff is actually an extension of the sleeve itself, rolled back and pressed flat and then (typically) anchored down by a stitch underneath the flap that you can't see, rather like the way shawl lapels are anchored to the chest of a vest. Why is cutting a seperate ring of cloth and then stitching it on so much more difficult and elegant?
     
  10. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    It has to be a little further forward to allow the back edge of the cuff to lie flat without the second sleeve button interrupting it.

    I could see that immediately in the blowup. I understand the mechanics of that type of cuff. It seems to me that having the bottom button forward of the sleeve from the other three would be unnecesary if handled more carefully, but it's not my coat. If you like it, more power to you.

    In England, Nino Corvato's garments are marveled over as items of tailoring beauty.

    I only recall seeing Corvato in the flesh twice and the examples looked a bit "old man" to me. I don't know if that is typical. It is just a subjective reaction. They did look very nicely made, however.

    That's the way Brooks Brothers did it, well back when Brooks had the High American taste it was known for.

    I miss those days.


    - B
     
  11. medwards

    medwards Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I like this too. Where does this come from?

    Cumbria
     
  12. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    I like this too. Where does this come from?

    The did the cuff slightly above the end button.


    That's Mahon for Will.


    - B
     
  13. medwards

    medwards Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    That's Mahon for Will.- B

    The question was "where?" As I said, Warwick Hall, Cumbria.
     
  14. RJmanbearpig

    RJmanbearpig Senior member

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    Bash me all you want about rules and pedantry, etc., but that is NOT the way a turnback cuff is supposed to look. None of the buttons are supposed to be cut through it. And the edges are supposed to be curved. See this pic, from Flusser, first sleeve on the left:

    [​IMG]

    Maybe a little more attention to tradition would have saved you from this.

    Roolzie.

    The biggest sartorial temptation that I have never taken is a full fur coat.

    So far, I have compromised with an Invertère bearcat, which is fuzzy like iammatt.

    I have one in llama, but it's so conspicuous and so warm I haven't worn it in years. After your analogy, I suspect I never will.

    I've only seen two shops do it, Flusser and A&S; both did the the curved way, no cut through. As, I should add, was the one that inspired FNB from the movie -- made by Flusser.
    As did Chat-Bite.
     
  15. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    As I said, Warwick Hall, Cumbria.

    We posted at the same time. Your answer was superior since it required homework.

    - B
     

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