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Sartorial mythbusting

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by apropos, Jan 12, 2010.

  1. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    we see both on SF - e.g. we can compare the two opposite approaches to Rooby that we have on the forum: whnay and iammatt on one side who just pick a fabric and stand there, letting the guy "do his thing"; foo on the other side who has to "fight" with Mariano to get the sleeves he wants and the details he thinks are better, then sends all his stuf back to have buttons added, etc... All seem happy with the output so I guess the "right" tailor is the one that makes both active and passive customers feel good about the clothes they get and the "experience".

    Even Foo, though, doesn't deviate from the house cut too much. He might waver on the details, but his Rubinacci still looks like Rubinacci. I think a more apt example of what I have in mind was the big Tom Ford debate, where Foo was insistent that a would-be Tom Ford customer would be better off going to a bespoke tailor for Tom Ford styling.
     


  2. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    My experience may not be representative, but here is what Mr. Hitchcock told me.

    Basically, A&S would be very flexible about any number of details you could imagine, and more or less inflexible on certain points of house style. If you want pagoda shoulders or a very stiff front, you will be polititely but firmly refused.

    But virtually everything else is on the table. They are perfectly happy to cut a slimmer coat for younger clients (or for anyone, on request) and have even used that as a selling point. You can play with the lapels and pockets and button point and lots of other details, and even some non-details like shoulder width. What you can't do is try to get them to make a coat that is, at the DNA level, not one of "theirs." I don't think they have a list of things they won't do, but most of them would be pretty obvious to those of us with a basic familiarity with their style.
     


  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    we see both on SF - e.g. we can compare the two opposite approaches to Rooby that we have on the forum: whnay and iammatt on one side who just pick a fabric and stand there, letting the guy "do his thing"; foo on the other side who has to "fight" with Mariano to get the sleeves he wants and the details he thinks are better, then sends all his stuf back to have buttons added, etc... All seem happy with the output so I guess the "right" tailor is the one that makes both active and passive customers feel good about the clothes they get and the "experience".

    I think you're misreading me. For the most part, I do as Bill or Matt, and simply pick out cloth. Hell, for my dinner suit, I just asked Mariano to choose a midnight blue mohair and take charge of how the lapels would be shaped. I didn't know what the finished product was going to look like until I received it.

    Generally, all I do is stipulate format: how many buttons, what kind of pockets, etc. That is the bare minimum any client needs to stipulate. I don't tell them how to shape or position things.

    The process of ordering my dinner suit was not unique because I was more picky about how the details were executed, but because I hazarded a format that was different from what was initially suggested.
     


  4. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    I think you're misreading me. For the most part, I do as Bill or Matt, and simply pick out cloth. Hell, for my dinner suit, I just asked Mariano to choose a midnight blue mohair and take charge of how the lapels would be shaped. I didn't know what the finished product was going to look like until I received it.

    Generally, all I do is stipulate format: how many buttons, what kind of pockets, etc. That is the bare minimum any client needs to stipulate. I don't tell them how to shape or position things.

    The process of ordering my dinner suit was not unique because I was more picky about how the details were executed, but because I hazarded a format that was different from what was initially suggested.


    [​IMG]
     


  5. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    [​IMG]

    Oh, give me a freaking break.
     


  6. tailorgod

    tailorgod Senior member

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    Can anyone provide a picture of Tom Ford wearing his A&S white tie?
    If I remember correctly it was much closer fitting than what we have seen elsewhere from A&S.
    Which raises the question why he went for A&S in the first place!
    Probably helping each other out, marketing wise!
    It almost looks like propaganda what Anda Rowland is constantly repeating in various publications on the web, and not only she. Apparently all this "...best tailors in the world..., so comfortable" talk is finally paying off, with more and more men "fooled" by such promises.
    It's quite interesting that so many other tailoring firms don't do the same big mouth talk...

    We cannot expect every bespoke garment to be top notch when it comes to style or proportions (valid for all bespoke tailors), but at least it should fit!
    BTW, letting celebrities walk around in horrible clothes is not really good marketing.
    Or maybe it is, given that so many people nowadays care more about the name on the label, who knows?
     


  7. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    Can anyone provide a picture of Tom Ford wearing his A&S white tie?
    If I remember correctly it was much closer fitting than what we have seen elsewhere from A&S.
    Which raises the question why he went for A&S in the first place!
    Probably helping each other out, marketing wise!
    It almost looks like propaganda what Anda Rowland is constantly repeating in various publications on the web, and not only she. Apparently all this "...best tailors in the world..., so comfortable" talk is finally paying off, with more and more men "fooled" by such promises.
    It's quite interesting that so many other tailoring firms don't do the same big mouth talk...


    Bull. Fucking. Shit.
     


  8. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Can anyone provide a picture of Tom Ford wearing his A&S white tie?
    If I remember correctly it was much closer fitting than what we have seen elsewhere from A&S.
    Which raises the question why he went for A&S in the first place!
    Probably helping each other out, marketing wise!
    It almost looks like propaganda what Anda Rowland is constantly repeating in various publications on the web, and not only she. Apparently all this "...best tailors in the world..., so comfortable" talk is finally paying off, with more and more men "fooled" by such promises.
    It's quite interesting that so many other tailoring firms don't do the same big mouth talk...

    We cannot expect every bespoke garment to be top notch when it comes to style or proportions (valid for all bespoke tailors), but at least it should fit!
    BTW, letting celebrities walk around in horrible clothes is not really good marketing.
    Or maybe it is, given that so many people nowadays care more about the name on the label, who knows?

    This is supposed to be evidence that there is no "hate" only honest assessments of individual garments? [​IMG]
     


  9. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    This is supposed to be evidence that there is no "hate" only honest assessments of individual garments? [​IMG]

    Hm, I think tailorgod's post might be another candidate for the dubbing/subtitling meme...
     


  10. mmkn

    mmkn Senior member

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    He doesn't grasp how things work in the custom suiting world.

    A good recent example is Whnay's dinner jacket.

    If it were me I wonder what Mariano Rubinacci would have thought if I requested a lapel width about half the shoulder line? Would he have shown me the door, cut the lapels the way Whnay's came out, or would we discuss whether the proportion I requested was either too fashiony or timeless fashion?

    I suppose in bespoke tailoring "one's name" struggles with "what the customer wants." At the outset it's probably best as a bespoke customer to match yourself with a bespoke operation's "house style," and tweak from there.

    Ford, I think, was enamored with A&S for their production ability of a tailored garment [for himself, not for his label]. It was the struggle described above that ultimately resulted in his statement. That still does not change the varying levels of make I have seen out there from A&S.

    Although the names and faces have changed at A&S, about the only customer of theirs that I have responded with "I love your suit, who is the maker?" would be Fred Astaire.

    - M
     


  11. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    Hm, I think tailorgod's post might be another candidate for the dubbing/subtitling meme...
    Hitler ranting about A&S would be sweet. Anyone want to start a collaboration thread in DT for ideas? --Andre
     


  12. edmorel

    edmorel Quality Seller!! Dubiously Honored

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    Calvin Klein allegedly has a wall to wall closet full of A&S suits. Not sure what that has to do with the topic at hand, but just wanted to show everyone how plugged in I am.
     


  13. RJman

    RJman Posse Member Dubiously Honored

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    Hitler ranting about A&S would be sweet. Anyone want to start a collaboration thread in DT for ideas?

    --Andre


    Das Drape hat mir VERRATEN!!!!!!

    Done -- see DT.
     


  14. tailorgod

    tailorgod Senior member

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    My experience may not be representative, but here is what Mr. Hitchcock told me.

    Basically, A&S would be very flexible about any number of details you could imagine, and more or less inflexible on certain points of house style. If you want pagoda shoulders or a very stiff front, you will be polititely but firmly refused.

    But virtually everything else is on the table. They are perfectly happy to cut a slimmer coat for younger clients (or for anyone, on request) and have even used that as a selling point. You can play with the lapels and pockets and button point and lots of other details, and even some non-details like shoulder width. What you can't do is try to get them to make a coat that is, at the DNA level, not one of "theirs." I don't think they have a list of things they won't do, but most of them would be pretty obvious to those of us with a basic familiarity with their style.


    Requesting any of those possibilities would demand a very experienced customer. From what I understand many men just pop into A&S demanding a suit or coat and let them do their "thing".
    What we "h8ers" criticize are the often poor results of that procedure.


    Please name any other tailoring firm that is so often "quoted" to be the world's best tailors...

    Ironically Anda Rowland quote Tom Ford to have said just that...
     


  15. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Requesting any of those possibilities would demand a very experienced customer. From what I understand many men just pop into A&S demanding a suit or coat and let them do their "thing".What we "h8ers" criticize are the often poor results of that procedure.

    Isn't that what happens at virtually every tailor in the world? So A&S will do both: help the client who pops in, and try to accomodate the ones with distinct ideas. Sounds like a fine approach to me.
     


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