Santoni vs Sutor

[knittieguy]

Originally Posted by Soph

http://www.shermanbrothers.com/produ...&ProductId=897

I like the design of this Santoni. I used to own it before going higher end Vass/etc. If they would make it to higher end FAM specs I would love it. A greatshoe for a budget.

I love the fact that a $525 shoe is considered a budget shoe. It is amazing how this forum can alter your sensibilities. I used to wonder why anyone would spend $250 for a pair of shoes. Now I find myself wondering why a pair of shoes are only priced at $425. I own two pairs of those $525 Santonis (Bristols) and agree that they are great shoes. I got them as store returns for $200 on ebay though.

Out of curiousity, isn't the Santoni 6015 a sort of a higher end FAM version of the one you like?

 

[mr monty]

I have this model in burgundy. More trad than my SMs, a good solid shoe.

GRIFFIN
Goodyear Welted Construction Cap Toe Oxford
$625

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by gdl203

There is no reason to say that one is better made than the other.
Of course there is, if, in fact, the indicators of quality of construction suggest this to be the case. You happen to believe that such indicators do not suggest a difference in quality. Others believe that they do. There are such indicators, and they are objective: care in the stitching, quality of finishing joins, care in the heel-edge treatment, precision of the dovetail in the heel, alignment of the facings, straightness of the stitched seams, symmetry in sole and heel thickness, alignment of eyelets, reinforcement of eyelets, smoothness of stitched edges, addition of piping aroung the shoe opening, etc., etc. If these details are better attended to by one maker than the other, it is indeed helpful for us to know this

Originally Posted by gdl203

PS: I also have been to Italy many many many times (which apparently lends credibility so here you go

)....
Having made trips to Italy is hardly the point, is it. I was simply pointing out that Iammatt has, on many many occasions, described his experiences with Italian cordwainers, Italian shoe-making factories, and his many purchases and examination of Italian shoes over the years. In your many trips to Italy, have you engaged in this level of study of Italian shoemaking? If so, your insights deserve the same weight.

 

[Soph]

Originally Posted by knittieguy

I love the fact that a $525 shoe is considered a budget shoe. It is amazing how this forum can alter your sensibilities. I used to wonder why anyone would spend $250 for a pair of shoes. Now I find myself wondering why a pair of shoes are only priced at $425. I own two pairs of those $525 Santonis (Bristols) and agree that they are great shoes. I got them as store returns for $200 on ebay though.

Out of curiousity, isn't the Santoni 6015 a sort of a higher end FAM version of the one you like?

Yes, it's a budget as most of us on the forum have realized that they can regularly pick this shoe up on ebay for less than $250 on a farily regular basis. It's mass produced for Nordstroms so the supply is quite steady for this particular model. You realize that most of us hardly ever pay full retail unless it's a rare and highly sought after item. And even then with patience you can find even many more rare shoes.

 

[gdl203]

You can comment ad nauseum on a sentence extracted from its context Roger. The first sentence you quoted was clearly referring to my own personal experience with these two makers, not to the absolute idea that quality can be different from a maker to another

In any case, I'm not the kind of guy that inspects my shoes with a loupe to answer the points you raised, neither do I have any interest at all in verifying the perfect alignment of the eyelets. To me, shoe quality is something that arises with time and wear, not under a microscope

Originally Posted by Roger

If so, your insights deserve the same weight.

whatever

 

[Soph]

Originally Posted by knittieguy

I love the fact that a $525 shoe is considered a budget shoe. It is amazing how this forum can alter your sensibilities. I used to wonder why anyone would spend $250 for a pair of shoes. Now I find myself wondering why a pair of shoes are only priced at $425. I own two pairs of those $525 Santonis (Bristols) and agree that they are great shoes. I got them as store returns for $200 on ebay though.

Out of curiousity, isn't the Santoni 6015 a sort of a higher end FAM version of the one you like?

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...tol&category0=

Brown comes up regularly. I think you can pick them up for $150.

 

[Roger]

Originally Posted by gdl203

In any case, I'm not the kind of guy that inspects my shoes with a loupe to answer the points you raised, neither do I have any interest at all in verifying the perfect alignment of the eyelets. To me, shoe quality is something that arises with time and wear, not under a microscope
Of course, nobody inspects shoes with a loupe or under a microscope (sarcastic portrayals of attention to detail), but many, unlike you, do care about the indicators of quality I have mentioned--and others too numerous to mention. You are free to define quality for yourself in any way you choose, but many of us define it in terms of such attention to detail.

 

[knittieguy]

Originally Posted by Soph

http://search.ebay.com/search/search...tol&category0= Brown comes up regularly. I think you can pick them up for $150.
Why is it that it seems like the Bristol comes up regularly but other models like the Darren hardly ever do?

 

[Soph]

Originally Posted by knittieguy

Why is it that it seems like the Bristol comes up regularly but other models like the Darren hardly ever do?

Beats me. Perhaps they are not one of Nordstroms primary inventory.

 

[SGladwell]

Originally Posted by iammatt

I certainly like Sutor much more. I feel that the Sutor shoes in all ranges are done very well, are often quite trditional, albeint in an Italian way and mine have always been estremely comfortable. Also, they seem to be a company that has always stayed true to what they are, and has a consistent style and quality throughout their line.

I cannot think of a line of shoes that I like less than Santoni. Every pair I have seen has been inelegant and clunky or pointy and pimpy. Furthermore, the prices they charge for the top of their range are outrageous for the quality which they deliver. They seem to be shoes that aspire to be Lattanzi at 2/3 of the price and 10% of the quality of workmanship. The lower lines strike me as simply ugly and the mid range as pimpy.

I would go with Sutor any day.

Did this thread really need to go on past Matt's first post? He nailed it.

 

[teddieriley]

Originally Posted by SGladwell

Did this thread really need to go on past Matt's first post? He nailed it.

What he nailed was his own opinion. It would be a mistake to think someone started a thread only to get one opinion. Otherwise we'd all be walking around in the same shoes!