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Saddest thing

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Korben, Dec 4, 2009.

  1. tor

    tor Senior member

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    where the trees are bare
    Are you serious? All humans have done is destroy the planet and breed war and disease. Humans have done nothing good for this Earth. In fact, they've done nothing good for themselves either, in the sense that as a species we are at a greater risk of complete self-destruction than we were 500 years ago.

    I'm not even a hippie. I don't recycle and I don't turn off my lights. I eat meat. My point is, the idea that humans do anything "good" compared to other animals is ludicrous. The only good thing about saving a human life compared to an animal's is that it is one of us and we have a drive to protect the species, and to value other things like us. That's it. And you know what, that's a good enough reason for me to save a human child over an animal, but at least I'm calling a spade a spade. At least I understand that the human kid I'm saving is more likely than not to contribute to the misery of this planet.


    That's why I said potential. Clearly humans have more potential, both for evil and for good. The uncertainty of our actions and their ultimate consequences is the sole reason why humans are so special. Our ability to act morally and evaluate our actions on a level completely removed from our physical state is what separates us from the other animals on this planet. I agree with you that humans are almost entirely destructive, and the majority of people are shitty human beings. But just as humans have an almost endless capacity for evil, our existence as nearly infinite beings goes both ways, no homo.
     
  2. unjung

    unjung Senior member

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    I apologize for derailing this thread and I look forward to updates on the cat. I am a huge animal lover. Humans are easily replaceable. I personally can do my part to create one every 30 minutes or so, I imagine up to around 10 times per day under duress. I cannot create mountain lions. If a human is any more utile than a mountain lion in the natural order, it is because it can deliberately and consciously control its reproductive success. It may be argued that it is less valuable than a mountain lion, because there are less mountain lions than humans. Otherwise it is no more and no less valuable than a mountain lion or a gnat.
    That's why I said potential. Clearly humans have more potential, both for evil and for good. The uncertainty of our actions and their ultimate consequences is the sole reason why humans are so special. Our ability to act morally and evaluate our actions on a level completely removed from our physical state is what separates us from the other animals on this planet. I agree with you that humans are almost entirely destructive, and the majority of people are shitty human beings. But just as humans have an almost endless capacity for evil, our existence as nearly infinite beings goes both ways, no homo.
    The ability of a flea to jump the equivalent of 60 football fields is what differentiates it from other animals. The ability of a Goliath beetle to carry 60 times its own weight differentiates it from other animals. The ability of an emperor penguin to walk a hundred miles across the ice having not eaten in months is differentiates it from other animals. The ability of a sea anemone to potentially have no natural lifespan (they may well live forever!) is what differentiates it from other animals. Humans will be dead in a couple centuries at worst, a couple dozen millenia at best. Flatworms will probably remain completely unchanged. We value what's important to us - intelligence and related attributes. Frogs value eating insects, calling for mates and staying wet. Nature values one thing - survival, procreation, the passing-on of genetic material.
     
  3. tor

    tor Senior member

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    I apologize for derailing this thread and I look forward to updates on the cat. I am a huge animal lover.

    Humans are easily replaceable. I personally can do my part to create one every 30 minutes or so, I imagine up to around 10 times per day under duress. I cannot create mountain lions. If a human is any more utile than a mountain lion in the natural order, it is because it can deliberately and consciously control its reproductive success. It may be argued that it is less valuable than a mountain lion, because there are less mountain lions than humans. Otherwise it is no more and no less valuable than a mountain lion or a gnat.


    It would seem that Darwinism suggests that the less numerous a species is, the less fit to survive it is. Also, any value you attach based on naturalistic processes is artificial, although I see where you're coming from. Agree to disagree?
     
  4. Korben

    Korben Senior member

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    YOU SAVED KITLER

    Ha ha yeah he does have the little black spot and the picture is kinda iconic-ish i suppose.

    My point exactly. Be fucking consistent, people. You should all be bloody vegans, if you really feel this way. I am, but it doesn't mean that I am going to cry every time go to the store and see a turkey sandwich.

    Me be consistent??? I just wanted to save this kitten sorry if it bothered you.

    the mountain lions were there first. i'm sure i'll get called a dick for saying that but it's true

    I think that is the sentiment shared by many people. You see it all the time. People seem to be more freely giving to animals than to their fellow humans. I guess when people see animals they see innocence and somehow that is lost looking at other humans. I would say I am guilty of this sometimes, too.
     
  5. unjung

    unjung Senior member

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    It would seem that Darwinism suggests that the less numerous a species is, the less fit to survive it is. Also, any value you attach based on naturalistic processes is artificial, although I see where you're coming from. Agree to disagree?

    I do agree. And the question of whether the impact of humans on other animals is a natural process or unnatural process is one that I do not think can be answered. If the early North Americans caused the extinction of the giant sloth, is that any more acceptable as the Dutch wiping out the dodo? I don't know.

    I think value is always imposed, subjective and unnatural.
     
  6. Korben

    Korben Senior member

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    Deep conversations... guys
     
  7. tor

    tor Senior member

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    I do agree. And the question of whether the impact of humans on other animals is a natural process or unnatural process is one that I do not think can be answered. If the early North Americans caused the extinction of the giant sloth, is that any more acceptable as the Dutch wiping out the dodo? I don't know. I think value is always imposed, subjective and unnatural.
    Yeah, that's a good point. I think the idea that anthropogenic extinction is somehow different than other previous extinctions really just goes to show how the idea that humans are somehow more than just animals is very deeply ingrained in the general consciousness. Sorry Korben, I'm not trying to hijack Rudy's thread.
     
  8. AR_Six

    AR_Six Senior member

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    Wow, you are quite an optimist, and I'm glad that the kitten lived. I would definitely have assumed it wouldn't make it and killed it on the spot to prevent it from suffering any longer than it had to. That vet must be pretty damned good at his job...
     
  9. unjung

    unjung Senior member

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    Deep conversations... guys

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Korben

    Korben Senior member

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    Yeah, that's a good point. I think the idea that anthropogenic extinction is somehow different than other previous extinctions really just goes to show how the idea that humans are somehow more than just animals is very deeply ingrained in the general consciousness.

    Sorry Korben, I'm not trying to hijack Rudy's thread.


    No worries. Its fine

    Wow, you are quite an optimist, and I'm glad that the kitten lived. I would definitely have assumed it wouldn't make it and killed it on the spot to prevent it from suffering any longer than it had to. That vet must be pretty damned good at his job...

    She is... apparently.

    [​IMG]

    very nice.
     
  11. Pawz

    Pawz Senior member

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    *taps your shoulder*
    EDIT: Er... Yes. Very serious (has no clue what to say... See 'Reason for editing'... Too bad we can't delete posts). :p
     
  12. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    (...)
    I think that is the sentiment shared by many people. You see it all the time. People seem to be more freely giving to animals than to their fellow humans. I guess when people see animals they see innocence and somehow that is lost looking at other humans. I would say I am guilty of this sometimes, too.


    The idea goes;
    we are bigger and stronger,
    or just better-armed.

    Because we have power;
    to victimize the weak seems
    excessively cruel.
     
  13. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The idea goes;
    we are bigger and stronger,
    or just better-armed.

    Because we have power;
    to victimize the weak seems
    excessively cruel.

    That is the beauty
    of nuclear weapons.
    The are so fearsome
    that they scare malefactors
    into inaction.
    And if not,
    at least it is all
    over quickly
    and without much pain.
     
  14. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    That is the beauty
    of nuclear weapons.
    The are so fearsome
    that they scare malefactors
    into inaction.
    And if not,
    at least it is all
    over quickly
    and without much pain.


    For the lucky ones,
    perhaps, but those who survive
    are not left with much.
     
  15. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    For the lucky ones,
    perhaps, but those who survive
    are not left with much.

    The solution is
    a very large arsenal
    of high yield warheads
    and reliable delivery systems
    that can defeat ABMs,
    for instance decoys and MIRVs.
     
  16. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    Wow, thread went downhill fast after mountain lions entered the fray.
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    The solution is
    a very large arsenal
    of high yield warheads
    and reliable delivery systems
    that can defeat ABMs,
    for instance decoys and MIRVs.


    Manton: I see you
    as the older brother who
    knew all the cool stuff

    But, for M-A-D
    I am not feeling the love.
    back to kittens PLZ?

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
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    In Hiding
    Manton: I see you
    as the older brother who
    knew all the cool stuff

    But, for M-A-D
    I am not feeling the love.
    back to kittens PLZ?

    [​IMG]


    I think it would be
    overkill to nuke kittens.
    But since we have not
    tested in such a long time,
    if you have some kittens
    then I am game.
     
  19. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

    Messages:
    25,818
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    Dec 20, 2004
    I think it would be
    overkill to nuke kittens.
    But since we have not
    tested in such a long time,
    if you have some kittens
    then I am game.


    We can ask the Iranians, I hear they want to test soon so they can join the nations contributing to world peace by piling on nukes.
     
  20. Thomas

    Thomas Senior member

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    I think it would be
    overkill to nuke kittens.
    But since we have not
    tested in such a long time,
    if you have some kittens
    then I am game.


    Conservative ghoul!
    Kittens are precious resource!
    Korben will save them.
     

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