Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Montauk, Mar 13, 2013.
Quote:In this context, a 'master' tailor is simply one who knows how to both cut and tailor all the major bespoke outfits (lounge suit, white tie / tails, morning suit etc.). Typically, people specialize as either cutters of tailors, and some are often not trained to work on the more complex pieces like tails.
True. Theoretically after 7 years as a journey man though you had learned everything from your master and were equipped to make all those items. Of course not many tailors apprentice for so long these days and of course there has always been specializations and this is more the norm now.
A lot of the time the master tailor runs the house and he would train his apprentice as his successor. Meanwhile you would have finishers, cutters etc as well. Interestingly Robert Gieves was a master tailor.
Why was I told the a tailor apprenticeship was 4 years? Is this outside Savile Row or is a subdivision of a 'journey man'
Here's a new article about Rory. His former apprentice at Poole recently won this year's Golden Shears award:
And for those concerned with Rory's training, he talks about it in this interview piece:
That's a beautiful blue coat. A welcome corrective to the short, close-fitting
"Italian" garments that populate Style Forum these days. Not my style though.
Can someone explain to me this bit from Duffy:
What/where is the crook in his cut?
The distinction between a "crooked" vs a "straight" coat seems a bit ambiguously defined, and I've read differing descriptions from folks who all know how to cut a fine coat. I understand it as Rory has explained it to me with the rule of thumb he learned:
"Crooken on, straighten off."
This refers to how the foreparts hang. To "crooken" a forepart is to slightly swing it from the neckpoint inward toward the centerline such that it will remain more closed (or "on") even when unbuttoned. A "straightened" forepart will be be swung slightly outward from the centerline such that it will hang open (or "off") when unbuttoned.
As I understand it, Anderson & Sheppard (and those who trained there like Tom Mahon) tend to cut a straight coat, with much of their famous chest drape being pulled into being by the button fastening itself. I asked Mahon about this several years ago during a demonstration he was giving in NYC and he confirmed that he believed the button "should be doing something" by pulling the coat into shape, and that he didn't mind the bit of visible "pull" on the center button this entails. (For the record, nor do I, and nor do many iconic dressers in the pantheon.)
Proponents of crooked coats like Rory prefer to build their shape and drape into the coat without relying on the button fastening to do anything.
Neither technique is superior, per se--it comes down to a matter of personal preference and style. A coat for a SB 3 pc suit might well be cut straight to be worn unbuttoned and feature the waistcoat more. My own impression is that a crooked coat is more traditional, and more elegant when buttoned, but somewhat fusty-looking when worn unbuttoned (i.e. non-traditionally).
Anyway, I apologize in advance if I've made a hash of this explanation and encourage anyone to correct me where I may be mistaken.
For a more detailed (and highly confusing) technical examination of subject, check out this thread on the Cutter & Tailor forum.
FWIW my Steed (A&S expat) has a TON of shaping even when not buttoned.
I definitely don't mean to suggest that straight coats don't have shape--just that that shape might be enhanced by buttoning in a manner that a crooked coat (for better or for worse) isn't. How does your coat hang when unbuttoned?
In any case, like most binary distinctions in bespoke tailoring, I suspect that the straight/crooked dichotomy can be overstated. In the end I think most cutters and tailors are trying to make their clients look good, and that this end can be arrived at through different systems or approaches.
Interesting links. Thanks.
You've got it backward. The neckpoint itself is being moved; when moving it toward the center line, it is being straightened, when moving away from the center line it is being crookened.
A Master tailor has completed apprenticeships both as a cutter and a tailor, AND has established his own business!
Are the shoulders typical of Steed?
They seem a bit roped to me.
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