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RM Williams Boots - Everything You Wanted to Know

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Sator, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. skalogre

    skalogre Senior member

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    I strongly suggest that you go for an RMW 9F. It will still be a bit roomier than a 9.5D in the Byron even then. But maybe that's a good thing.

    The reason the AE is so snug is because they run quite narrow compared to RMW boots. Again, the softer more compliant leather of the RMW makes them feel roomier.

    I will rewrite my sizing recommendations to make it simpler - when I have time. At the moment it looks like madness - sorry. Though as you can see, the basic recommendation of AE size minus one basically works for most people anyway. I just want to tweek things to get it even more precise.


    You mean the veal or would the kangaroo leather be more recalcitrant?
     
  2. free

    free Well-Known Member

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    Alex,

    Would you mind letting me know what was the total charge to your CC? I received the same boots from Nungar yesterday and the charge was about usd289. By my calculation that's about aud70 for shipping? Thx.

    I ordered the boots from Nungar Trading on October 10th. Steve emailed me back right away to confirm, and advised that the factory expected the boots to be finished and delivered by the first week of November. Steve then emailed me again on October 25th to tell me that he received the boots, and was shipping them right away. I believe he charged my card on the 27th. All in all, a very good experience - Steve was helpful with my sizing concerns, and he was quite responsive to my various inquiries regarding the delivery date.

    For sizing, I followed Sator's recommendations as well as I could. I usually wear a 12B or 12C in AE, with the exception of the Park Avenue, in which I wear an 11.5C. I ended up ordering the boots in a 10.5G, and they fit very well. I probably could've gone down a width without a problem, but I was concerned that they would be too small. As it is, I'm happy with the fit.

    Cheers!
     
  3. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    You mean the veal or would the kangaroo leather be more recalcitrant?
    If by recalcitrant you mean harder and stiffer then it is the opposite. Veal and kangaroo are thinner and softer. The kangaroo is thinner but also very tough and grainy. The veal calf is soft and more fragile but polishes up better and looks a lot dressier.
     
  4. skalogre

    skalogre Senior member

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    If by recalitrant you mean harder and stiffer then it is the opposite.

    Veal and kangaroo are thinner and softer. The kangaroo is thinner but also very tough and grainy. The veal calf is soft and more fragile but polishes up better and looks a dressier.


    I see. So the 'roo hide would be able to form around and mould to the foot properly.
     
  5. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    I see. So the 'roo hide would be able to form around and mould to the foot properly.
    Not necessarily - it's just softer and stretchier. It means you have to get a snug fit or else the boot will feel too loose. I especially think boots should be snug around the ankle to help give support to all those ankle ligaments and reduce fatigue while walking. It's a really nice feeling once you've got the taste of it - shoes feel like there's something seriously missing by comparison.
     
  6. william

    william Senior member

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    The reason the AE is so snug is because they run quite narrow compared to RMW boots. Again, the softer more compliant leather of the RMW makes them feel roomier. I too find a 8D in lasts other than the AE Nr 5 feel almost too short and really snug - just like you. If I then compare an RMW 7G with it, I find it feels longer and wider even though the measurements tell me that AEs are longer. I can only explain this by saying the RMW leathers are softer and thinner plus the extra width stops the toe box from getting cramp - giving the illusion of being longer. I strongly suggest that you go for an RMW 9F if you are going for size 9s. It will still be considerably roomier than a 9.5D in the Byron because it will be a lot wider. I am very seriously beginning to think that the best recommendation is RMW 8F for someone who wears AE Byrons in 9D - especially when you order in veal calf or kangaroo. I will rewrite my sizing recommendations to make it simpler - when I have time. At the moment it looks like madness - sorry. Though as you can see, the basic recommendation of AE size minus one basically works for most people anyway. I just want to tweek things to get it even more precise.
    No need to apologize...you're doing us a favor by offering your insight and advice! I see options of H or G in the Kangaroo Craftsman no F. So basically I would have to get the Craftsman in the Yearling version. That lessens my interest in the RM Williams boots b/c I'm after something very durable. Also, I'm just looking at 9s b/c of what I read in this thread. From the example you gave should I perhaps look at an 8.5F?
     
  7. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    No need to apologize...you're doing us a favor by offering your insight and advice!

    I see options of H or G in the Kangaroo Craftsman no F. So basically I would have to get the Craftsman in the yearling version. That lessens my interest in the RM Williams boots b/c I'm after something very durable.

    Also, I'm just looking at 9s b/c of what I read in this thread. From the example you gave should I perhaps look at an 8.5F?


    Yearling leather is actually quite nice as well as being great value. I own two pairs in different colours and they are great. Yearling leather is scarcely inferior to the leathers used by AE for their shoes and more durable than French veal calf. It is finer grained than the kangaroo leather. Kangaroo is the toughest leather weight for weight in the world, but it looks more rugged. You can always custom order an F width kangaroo or veal calf Craftsman.

    If you wear 9.5D in a Byron then:
    - 9F will be a bit loose and a 9E in the Turnout model would fit better
    - 8.5F will fit best in the Craftsman
    - 8D following RMWs recommendations will be quite a reasonable fit - as you can tell from guys who have broughts using the standard RMW conversion to US size shows (just less than absolutely ideally snug perhaps but comfortable).

    All in all following RMWs basic guide may still be the safest as it involves the least fiddling around with lengths and widths. Seriously we are sweating over whether the boots might be 1/16'' narrower or longer for a better fit over the internet here!
     
  8. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    [​IMG] They are size 7G (medium width) and I wear 8D in AE Park Aves. Would a pair of 7F Craftsmans be an even snugger fit (Park Aves in size 8D are very snug on me)? Yes. Would that be preferable? Again - yes. But I got the 7G pair on sale and they didn't have a pair in 7F, yet the 7Gs are still very comfortable. As I say we are sweating over very fine detail here - very fine.
     
  9. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    Sator, do you have experience with the so-called Comfort Craftsman, with the poron insole and welted rubber outsole?
     
  10. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    Sator, do you have experience with the so-called Comfort Craftsman, with the poron insole and welted rubber outsole?

    I've seen them in person but have never owned a pair. New South Wales is in drought so I rarely need rubber soled boots. They look well made if a wet weather boot is what you are after.
     
  11. william

    william Senior member

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    Yearling leather is actually quite nice as well as being great value. I own two pairs in different colours and they are great. Yearling leather is scarcely inferior to the leathers used by AE for their shoes and more durable than French veal calf. It is finer grained than the kangaroo leather. Kangaroo is the toughest leather weight for weight in the world, but it looks more rugged. You can always custom order an F width kangaroo or veal calf Craftsman.

    If you wear 9.5D in a Byron then:
    - 9F will be a bit loose and a 9E in the Turnout model would fit better
    - 8.5F will fit best in the Craftsman
    - 8D following RMWs recommendations will be quite a reasonable fit - as you can tell from guys who have broughts using the standard RMW conversion to US size shows (just less than absolutely ideally snug perhaps but comfortable).

    All in all following RMWs basic guide may still be the safest as it involves the least fiddling around with lengths and widths. Seriously we are sweating over whether the boots might be 1/16'' narrower or longer for a better fit over the internet here!



    Ok...got it. Thank you very much for your help Sator. I think I'm going to place an order today!
     
  12. Borky

    Borky Senior member

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    What's the best way for someone in the US to determine their size in these? I don't want to get something from nungar and have to end up returning them (if i even can) to Australia. Should I get some AE shoes from zappos and see what size fits me best in those and then go with that exact size or what?

    Edit: I mean subtract one.
    I'm just trying to figure out what the easiest brand would be to get here to determine size.

    I want to get Turnouts by the way.
     
  13. william

    william Senior member

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    What's the best way for someone in the US to determine their size in these? I don't want to get something from nungar and have to end up returning them (if i even can) to Australia. Should I get some AE shoes from zappos and see what size fits me best in those and then go with that exact size or what?

    Did you read this thread??
     
  14. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    Did you read this thread??


    [​IMG]
     
  15. skalogre

    skalogre Senior member

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    Right, I have finally succumbed. I emailed Nungar regarding a chestnut kangaroo Stockman buckle boot in a 9F as the website only lists the G and H widths.
     
  16. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    Right, I have finally succumbed. I emailed Nungar regarding a chestnut kangaroo Stockman buckle boot in a 9F as the website only lists the G and H widths.

    Exxxxxcellent.
     
  17. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    Sator, do you have experience with the so-called Comfort Craftsman, with the poron insole and welted rubber outsole?

    I just received a pair about 2 weeks ago. Most comfortable shoes I've owned right out of the box. What else do you want to know?
     
  18. grimslade

    grimslade Senior member

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    I just received a pair about 2 weeks ago. Most comfortable shoes I've owned right out of the box. What else do you want to know?

    I guess I'm wondering how the poron insole affects wearability and comfort, and whether you think the rubber soles are really suitable for foul weather.

    Thanks!
     
  19. thinman

    thinman Senior member

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    I guess I'm wondering how the poron insole affects wearability and comfort, and whether you think the rubber soles are really suitable for foul weather. Thanks!
    The insole gives extra padding and I think it may be responsible for their superior comfort, although I don't own a mainline Craftsman for comparison. I bought the boots intending to wear them in icy, slushy conditions (but not deep snow), but I won't have a chance to test their suitability until January when I return to Oklahoma. However, www.bootsonline.com.au states that they are "Suitable for harsh weather conditions or where salt is used for melting snow".
     
  20. Sator

    Sator Senior member

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    Right, I have finally succumbed. I emailed Nungar regarding a chestnut kangaroo Stockman buckle boot in a 9F as the website only lists the G and H widths.

    If I were you I would drop down to 8.5Fs. I just got a pair of kangaroo Stockman's myself (size 7G and I wear AE PA 8Ds) this week from Steve. They run large compared to the 7G yearling leather Stockmans which I tried on for size beforehand. The thinner, softer leather I think is partly the cause plus the fact that standard G fits are already quite wide. Neither Steve nor RMW have F fits listed for the Stockman's so I thought it would be OK to order 7Gs. Unfortunately I am having to wear insoles. I wished I had asked if they can custom make narrower F fit Stockmans [​IMG] . They do have a F width chisel toed last so I can't see why they couldn't do it.
     

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