RM Williams Boots - Everything You Wanted to Know

[shortlefty]

Also, is there a substantial upgrade in the signature boot to justify a +$250-300 bump in price?

 

[Wild Strawberry Rabbit]

Comfort Craftsman.

 

[Liam0062]

Hello all,
After losing patience with Blundstone since their dramatic drop in quality over the years I'm now contemplating getting myself a pair of Gardeners to fill the gap left for general purpose/light work/winter travel/etc. boots.
My quick query of the intelligentsia is this: I own a pair of Comfort Craftsman in Vesta and they've served me well over the years (MTO bought long before the LVMH-driven upsurge in price), and I'm curious as to whether you think there's too much overlap between the two. My thinking has been that the Gardener in Greasy Kip and with the treaded sole might be a more utilitarian boot and provide more grip when I'm (occasionally) in snow and ice. But, is it enough to warrant the now ridiculous price on these boots? I figure both give enough flexibility across informal and formal settings to be suitable for travel.
Any thoughts?
Cheers.

I bought a pair of Black Gardeners last winter and wore them almost every day. They handled everything: snow, rain, and salt. Love them and can’t wait for the cold weather to return so I can start wearing them again. The sole, while stiff, didn‘t bother me at all. I think stiffness of the sole is perfect for the winter weather in Western New York. Good traction too.

 

[ghableska]

I bought a pair of Black Gardeners last winter and wore them almost every day. They handled everything: snow, rain, and salt. Love them and can’t wait for the cold weather to return so I can start wearing them again. The sole, while stiff, didn‘t bother me at all. I think stiffness of the sole is perfect for the winter weather in Western New York. Good traction too.

Do you happen to have any pictures of them? I'd love to see what the Black Gardeners look like with a good bit of wear, compared with Blundstones.

 

[Liam0062]

Do you happen to have any pictures of them? I'd love to see what the Black Gardeners look like with a good bit of wear, compared with Blundstones.

They look brand new. I take good care of them. There are a few nicks and as long as you stay on top of maintenance, I think they will last a long time.

 

[troika]

Gardeners are the best rmw shoe ever. And you can get em for <$350 still.

 

[palladio211]

Someone a few posts back was asking about Gardener vs Comfort boots, and another mentioned he thought the rubber soles on the Gardener boots were too hard to be comfortable for use on pavement etc.

I've worn RMW boots almost daily for 30 years, and have owned all the regular styles and sole types. If you want a boot for rugged work outdoors, riding or working on a farm, get the Gardener boots in "greasy kip". It's heavy enough to hold up for many years in hard conditions, so long as you keep them oiled properly. And unlike the yearling boots, you don't have to worry much about scratching or abrading them. The heavier leather with oiled finish doesn't show blemishes much after a coating of boot oil or conditioner. I have pairs of Gardeners I've worn for 10+ years in all conditions that are still going strong.

If the soles in any RMW boot feel too hard for you, I suggest sizing up a half or whole size and adding a cushioned footbed. I've been doing this with all but my dressiest RMW boots for years. Other than comfort, other benefits are that you can replace the insoles when they lose their cushion, and remove them to air out sweat and moisture at the end of the day. The only trick is figuring out how much you'll need to size up, and that will depend on the type of insole you choose. I mostly use Ariat's footbeds that come in their riding boots. They are breathable and offer some extra cushion and support without being too thick.

Here's a link to the insoles I use. I've tried all sorts of other brands, but these just seem to work and fit better than any of the others. For me they fit best if I go up 1/2 size.

Amazon.com: Ariat Men's ATS A10008007 Shoe Insert Footbed Round Toe Insole, 10.5 M US : Clothing, Shoes & Jewelry

Buy Ariat Men's ATS A10008007 Shoe Insert Footbed Round Toe Insole, 10.5 M US and other Men at Amazon.com. Our wide selection is eligible for free shipping and free returns.

www.amazon.com

 

[palladio211]

And to people here considering RMW boots who have never owned them......

I don't think you can find a better quality boot anywhere, and I've owned many brands and even bespoke/custom riding boots. So long as their new owners at LVMH don't cut corners going forward, these boots can last you a lifetime with proper care and occasional re-soling or new heels. The price is high, and even higher now under the new owners, but I think you easily get what you pay for over the long term. I've been wearing some of my RMW for 30 years now, and only one pair has ever been retired. And that was only because I rode horses in them thousands of times and the leather finally gave out where they constantly rub against the metal stirrups.

The most important aspect of caring for them is to make sure the leather stays conditioned and doesn't dry out. If it gets too dry, it will eventually start cracking around the ball of the foot where the most flex is. A friend of mine who makes high end leather belts and tack for a living recommended this leather conditioner, and it has served me well for years. It doesn't take much so a big jar of it will last for years.

https://www.amazon.com/Skidmores-Original-Leather-Repellent-Conditioner/dp/B016U7UTBG/ref=asc_df_B016U7UTBG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198129370765&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8602894645772413945&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031300&hvtargid=pla-349930714765&psc=1

 

[ATL007]

And to people here considering RMW boots who have never owned them......

I don't think you can find a better quality boot anywhere, and I've owned many brands and even bespoke/custom riding boots. So long as their new owners at LVMH don't cut corners going forward, these boots can last you a lifetime with proper care and occasional re-soling or new heels. The price is high, and even higher now under the new owners, but I think you easily get what you pay for over the long term. I've been wearing some of my RMW for 30 years now, and only one pair has ever been retired. And that was only because I rode horses in them thousands of times and the leather finally gave out where they constantly rub against the metal stirrups.

The most important aspect of caring for them is to make sure the leather stays conditioned and doesn't dry out. If it gets too dry, it will eventually start cracking around the ball of the foot where the most flex is. A friend of mine who makes high end leather belts and tack for a living recommended this leather conditioner, and it has served me well for years. It doesn't take much so a big jar of it will last for years.

https://www.amazon.com/Skidmores-Original-Leather-Repellent-Conditioner/dp/B016U7UTBG/ref=asc_df_B016U7UTBG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198129370765&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8602894645772413945&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031300&hvtargid=pla-349930714765&psc=1

RMW is no longer owned by LVMH

 

[palladio211]

RMW is no longer owned by LVMH

Who owns them now? Several years ago they closed the RMW store in NYC, which I think was the only one in the USA. That's where I used to go to buy them. There was a well known cobbler two doors down who did resoling and kept a stock of RMW soles. He told me they had been bought out, then I heard later that LVMH had bought that owner out. This all just hearsay so I may be wrong.

And since I haven't bought a pair since the original buyout, are they still being made by hand in the same factory? Has the quality gone down at all? I know the prices have gone up!

 

[johnbarfi111]

Who owns them now? Several years ago they closed the RMW store in NYC, which I think was the only one in the USA. That's where I used to go to buy them. There was a well known cobbler two doors down who did resoling and kept a stock of RMW soles. He told me they had been bought out, then I heard later that LVMH had bought that owner out. This all just hearsay so I may be wrong.

And since I haven't bought a pair since the original buyout, are they still being made by hand in the same factory? Has the quality gone down at all? I know the prices have gone up!

It's back in Australian hands. The Forrest Family. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10...ow-that-rm-williams-australian-owned/12801154

Not entirely sure what will happen. LVMH tried to reposition them as luxury boots (which, I mean considering the quality of boots out there, they are), but the new owners are faffing around about making them "Australian" again. Unless the price hike has been a catastrophe, I doubt they're going down in price.

About the factory, I don't know. This to me seems like a grey area. The bespoke boots are made in Australia, but are the rest of the line? Are all the Comfort Craftsman? I couldn't really find a clear answer.

 

[palladio211]

@johnbarfi111 thanks for the info.

All the boots were made in the same factory the same way before the buyouts. I have no idea now, and I don't own any that were made post buyout. Seems like good news at least to have them back in local ownership. LVMH has a habit of doubling prices, halving quality, and turning high quality classic goods into lower quality mass-market "lifestyle brands".

Speaking of which, as someone who has worn RMW boots almost daily for 30 years, I was concerned when they closed the NYC store. I bought up whatever I could in my size in NOS so I'd have some of the originals as spares. Unfortunately for me, as I've aged my feet have recently grown/flattened from 1/2 to nearly 1 size up, and some of them are a bit tight.

If anyone is looking for a pair of the classic Craftsman boot in chocolate suede in barely used condition, size 10.5 G, I am ready to sell them. I only wore them maybe a dozen times, and put them back in their original box years ago. I have two other pairs in size 11 that I use now. PM me if interested.

 

[shoerejuvenator]

It was actually L Catterton, a private equity firm backed by LVHM, who bought RMW back in 2013. They have a reputation for buying under-valued lifestyle brands in order to flip them for a dime. All the Chelsea boots are still made in the Adelaide workshop. The other styles are made in Europe.

 

[palladio211]

It was actually L Catterton, a private equity firm backed by LVHM, who bought RMW back in 2013. They have a reputation for buying under-valued lifestyle brands in order to flip them for a dime. All the Chelsea boots are still made in the Adelaide workshop. The other styles are made in Europe.

You are correct, thanks for clarifying that. I just saw L Catterton and LVMH as part of the same team, since they are a joint venture between Catterton and LVMH, hence the "L" in front of Catterton in their moniker. When I heard they had bought RMW, I thought RMW was eventually going to be absorbed into the LVMH "family" of luxury brands. My impression at the time was that the L Catterton joint venture was formed as a sort of acquisition vehicle for LVMH. I haven't followed them, but from what you said their goal was likely just to buy it and flip it for a profit after expanding global sales and juicing up the bottom line. I think the recent buyer paid $190M for it, but I could never find any public information on what L Catterton paid when they bought it.

Anyway that's all academic now, since their new investor appears to be in it for the longer haul. I suspect that is a good thing for RMW, its employees, and long term customers.

Interesting that the styles other than the Chelsea boots are made in Europe. Are they new product lines that were introduced under L Catterton's tenure? I've never bought anything other than Chelsea boots from RMW, but I seem to remember seeing other styles like taller cowboy boots in their store some years ago.

 

[nsubrmnn]

R.M. Williams X J.Crew Gifford boots in leather

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These look really nice. Looks like a less “sleek” last?