RLBL-made in China?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by MacDaddy, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. academe

    academe Senior member

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    It matters for the following reasons: 1. Quality control is often not the same. 2. Third world factories often employ child or slave labour. 3. Environmental controls are often nonexistent. 4. There are virtually no consumer protections on content of materials or truth in labeling. Just because that shirt made in Thailand reads "100% cotton" doesn't mean it's 100% cotton. 5. Many times the purchase of products from these nations continues to empower the tyrannical governments leading to further oppression on local people and international strife.
    These are very common arguments and I'm not disputing that these things may be true. What I'd like to know is how prevalent some of these unethical practices are today, in 2011, as opposed to in the 1980s or 1990s. Perhaps some of our members from East Asia could chime in? I thought the comments from the Tailoring Director at Henry Bailey Ltd in the LL thread were quite interesting: http://thelondonlounge.net/forum/vie...t=9664&start=0 Why is there always the assumption that every single factory in China or newly industrialised countries are uniformly implementing bad labor practices? What about our dear friends the Italians??
     


  2. academe

    academe Senior member

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    I work for the American branch of a Spanish company that builds wind turbines. We assemble our nacelles in the US, but most of the components come from China"”including German brand name components and modules.

    We have seen no difference in quality from when it was made in Germany or in China as these suppliers have their name on the line and a reputation to defend. We have also moved some of our plants to China and our quality has actually improved (possibly due to newer equipment).

    I know I don't work in textiles or fashion, but I'm sure many brands (not all) understand the value of their brand image and they will do everything in their power to protect it even if it is made on Mars using Plotonians.


    Do you know if labour practices have improved in parts of China? It's tempting to regard China and the newly industrialised world as a single, monolithic entity, attached to which are some inherent assumptions about behaviour practice, etc. Some of these opinions tap into deeply held preconceptions about similarities and differences among peoples around the world... However, as we all know, society is constantly involving and responding to external pressures...Any insight?
     


  3. MacDaddy

    MacDaddy Senior member

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    There are definitely good manufacturers in China, even if they're not easily named. Take a look at these articles:

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...na-growth.htmlI've seen those Gieves and Hawkes and Cerruti 1881 suits,not impressed.

    http://www.savilerow-style.com/issue012/style03.htmThe Kilgour I saw wasn't great either.

    And also this thread from London Lounge:

    http://thelondonlounge.net/forum/vie...t=9664&start=0These suits are cut in England,only assembly is done with cheap Chinese labor and no Chinese fabric.



    I'll grant you that some houses keep their production in-house, and the Made in Italy label still retains some meaning. However, take a look at the following threads:

    http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...nese+immigrant

    http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...nese+immigrant

    http://www.styleforum.net/showthread...nese+immigrantI've seen those threads except for the last one,which apparently requires 100 posts to view.

    I think many Italian houses have as dirty hands when it comes to labor practices as anybody else.

    I would agree with this,but I think it's more prominent with the "designer" labels.Good hustle on the research,but in retrospect only one specific Chinese company was named,and from what I have seen of their product I wouldn't call it quality.
     


  4. Patek

    Patek Senior member

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    Do you know if labour practices have improved in parts of China? It's tempting to regard China and the newly industrialised world as a single, monolithic entity, attached to which are some inherent assumptions about behaviour practice, etc. Some of these opinions tap into deeply held preconceptions about similarities and differences among peoples around the world... However, as we all know, society is constantly involving and responding to external pressures...Any insight?

    From my few visits there, I was shocked at some of the labor practices and lack of concern for personal safety. However, much of this is a cultural thing as they have been doing things that way for years. I saw safety violations that would get a worker fired in the U.S.

    However, our companies safety practices are the same in Europe, the U.S., China, India, Brazil... Safety or environmental infractions are dealt with accordingly when caught. That being said, if a supervisor does not write up a worker for a safety violation it is not because the policy does not exist; it is likely that they do not see what the big deal is as they are used to doing it that way.
     


  5. academe

    academe Senior member

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    I would agree with this,but I think it's more prominent with the "designer" labels.Good hustle on the research,but in retrospect only one specific Chinese company was named,and from what I have seen of their product I wouldn't call it quality.

    Great come back.
     


  6. MacDaddy

    MacDaddy Senior member

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    Great come back.
    I posted specific replies to each of those links directly after each link,which aren't as prominent as the quote at the bottom that was only directed at your last sentence.
     


  7. jet

    jet Persian Bro

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    I don't purchase anything expensive made in china but rather disposables.
     


  8. pratiksha

    pratiksha New Member

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    This site is about the designer sunglasses. its mainly focus on MMJ sunglasses.Marc by Marc Jacobs Sunglasses is without a doubt one of the number one selling brands in the North American market. The brand paved the way for other fashion houses to release their own economy eye wear collections. This site also show about vogue, parda, D&G, Gucci, polo Diesel, Ray-Ban etc. You can visit this site for detail.

    MMJ Sunglasses
     


  9. cchen

    cchen Senior member

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    It matters for the following reasons:

    1. Quality control is often not the same.
    2. Third world factories often employ child or slave labour.
    3. Environmental controls are often nonexistent.
    4. There are virtually no consumer protections on content of materials or truth in labeling. Just because that shirt made in Thailand reads "100% cotton" doesn't mean it's 100% cotton.
    5. Many times the purchase of products from these nations continues to empower the tyrannical governments leading to further oppression on local people and international strife.


    Not sure if you have any actual experience in the garment industry, but these are very common misconceptions and are completely misguided. Yes, you can find factories that have child and slave labor. Yes you can find bad environmental practices. But the majority of factories these days comply with international standards.

    "Made in" wherever has very little meaning these days. In reality, IMO, the agent you use matters much more than the actual factory the product is produced in.
     


  10. phoenixrecon

    phoenixrecon Senior member

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    Not sure if you have any actual experience in the garment industry, but these are very common misconceptions and are completely misguided. Yes, you can find factories that have child and slave labor. Yes you can find bad environmental practices. But the majority of factories these days comply with international standards.

    "Made in" wherever has very little meaning these days. In reality, IMO, the agent you use matters much more than the actual factory the product is produced in.


    I saw a documentary on Nike and their factories and for that reason I avoid buying from china. If there was an ounce of truth in the documentary its enough for me to not want products made their.

    also the $300 retail on RLBL shirts is [​IMG]
     


  11. academe

    academe Senior member

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    I saw a documentary on Nike and their factories and for that reason I avoid buying from china. If there was an ounce of truth in the documentary its enough for me to not want products made their.

    also the $300 retail on RLBL shirts is [​IMG]


    But I think the point cchen and I'm trying to make is that the Chinese garment industry is probably not a monolithic entity, much in the same way that Italian or British manufacturing is also not monolithic. For every Nike I'm sure there are firms making up quality garments, under relatively decent working conditions.
     


  12. phoenixrecon

    phoenixrecon Senior member

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    but the lack of regulation makes me worry and thus I do not approve.
     


  13. musicguy

    musicguy Senior member

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    MacDaddy, get over it. You just don't like seeing a label that says it's made in China. You know, Japan used to make a ton of crappy products too. If the quality is good (which it is) who cares (supposed labor issues aside)? Here's another thread that you should check out: http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=127041
    Worry more about the integrity of the company that's having things made in China. If the material specs are identical and the manufacturing tolerances are identical then place of manufacture is a moot point. Hopefully the company also outsources to manufacturing firms that do take care of their employees in a respectable manner although that's not a requirement in the manufacturing world per se. It's a global market these days and things are done differently. Worry about what really matters when it comes to a quality prodect and get over the where it's made fallacy.
     


  14. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Senior member

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    These are very common arguments and I'm not disputing that these things may be true. What I'd like to know is how prevalent some of these unethical practices are today, in 2011, as opposed to in the 1980s or 1990s. Perhaps some of our members from East Asia could chime in? I thought the comments from the Tailoring Director at Henry Bailey Ltd in the LL thread were quite interesting: http://thelondonlounge.net/forum/vie...t=9664&start=0 Why is there always the assumption that every single factory in China or newly industrialised countries are uniformly implementing bad labor practices? What about our dear friends the Italians??
    http://www.time.com/time/world/artic...635144,00.html http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=57 It's not something that was confined to just the '90s or '80s. Your point about the Italian labour industry is well made, and I am often suspicious about items coming from Italy as well.
    Not sure if you have any actual experience in the garment industry, but these are very common misconceptions and are completely misguided. Yes, you can find factories that have child and slave labor. Yes you can find bad environmental practices. But the majority of factories these days comply with international standards.
    What is your source for this assertion? While I am hesitant to cite wikipedia, they appear to have a decent article on this issue - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_in_the_People's_Republic_of_China
     


  15. jussumguy

    jussumguy Well-Known Member

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    The value of their labor is rising. I know this is distressing to many of the Caucasian Persuasion, but it's the truth. I don't like it any more than the next red-blooded, cashmere sweater-wearing, white American male, but them's the numbers kiddos.

    Maybe if hippies and liberals didn't run the country we might have a chance to put them in their place, before they steal our jobs. At least they're not capable of raping our women.


    Put them in their place? [​IMG] So only Americans deserve a fair wage?

    Maybe you should go in there Rambo style and save us.
     


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