Redemption & spalla camicia (was: tale of overcoats & yoox woe)

[HHD]

They looked like promising coats, with the possible exception of the Cucinelli one, I rarely like the fit on BC coats and jackets. I've heard the quality of construction isn't what it should be, but those jackets I've tried seem OK. Prices are absurd, though. I'm a big fan of Boglioli, but the cut is a matter of taste. They are definitely aiming for a recognisable silhouette. It's meant to be relatively close fitting if not slim; I find I can't wear more than a shirt and fine-knit jumper under a Boglioli jacket. While the shoulders are artfully rounded and light, the waist and back are relatively structured and can be quite unforgiving when buttoned if you have anything like a gut (not that I am suggesting you do!) Never had any problems with construction, and I've got a few of them. Some solid jackets in washed moleskin and heavy cotton come out under the COAT label - the construction is a little less delicate but I'm less concerned wearing them to bars, on the metro, in the park and so on than I would be their main line silk/linen or cashmere equivalents. Again, the cut is either "you" or it isn't. I'd second the recommendation for Etro, though please note that Boglioli makes coats and jackets for Etro and the fit is sometimes similar. Boglioli also produces jackets and coats for a number of "own brand" lines in stores including Arthur & Fox in Paris. Arthur & Fox is generally cheaper than Boglioli's own label - the finishing isn't as fine and the buttons are plastic rather than horn or mother of pearl. NB Boglioli's taste is far from infallible: http://www.yoox.com/item.asp?sec=1&Y...A&sts=sr_men80

 

[ThinkDerm]

Originally Posted by HHD

They looked like promising coats, with the possible exception of the Cucinelli one, I rarely like the fit on BC coats and jackets. I've heard the quality of construction isn't what it should be, but those jackets I've tried seem OK. Prices are absurd, though.

I'm a big fan of Boglioli, but the cut is a matter of taste. They are definitely aiming for a recognisable silhouette.

It's meant to be relatively close fitting if not slim; I find I can't wear more than a shirt and fine-knit jumper under a Boglioli jacket. While the shoulders are artfully rounded and light, the waist and back are relatively structured and can be quite unforgiving when buttoned if you have anything like a gut (not that I am suggesting you do!)

Never had any problems with construction, and I've got a few of them. Some solid jackets in washed moleskin and heavy cotton come out under the COAT label - the construction is a little less delicate but I'm less concerned wearing them to bars, on the metro, in the park and so on than I would be their main line silk/linen or cashmere equivalents. Again, the cut is either "you" or it isn't.

I'd second the recommendation for Etro, though please note that Boglioli makes coats and jackets for Etro and the fit is sometimes similar. Boglioli also produces jackets and coats for a number of "own brand" lines in stores including Arthur & Fox in Paris. Arthur & Fox is generally cheaper than Boglioli's own label - the finishing isn't as fine and the buttons are plastic rather than horn or mother of pearl.

NB Boglioli's taste is far from infallible:

http://www.yoox.com/item.asp?sec=1&Y...A&sts=sr_men80

yeah, boglioli is cut super slim, even in bigger sizes. If you have thighs, cock & balls, butt, and anything less than a 6 pack, boglioli wont fit

 

[aportnoy]

Jeez, I absolutely love my Cucinelli sport coats and outerwear. The fit and fabrics are great.

 

[HHD]

Originally Posted by ThinkDerm

yeah, boglioli is cut super slim, even in bigger sizes. If you have thighs, cock & balls, butt, and anything less than a 6 pack, boglioli wont fit

******* and balls don't usually bulge out of my jacket... but then I've never tried Boglioli's trousers ;-)

 

[ThinkDerm]

Originally Posted by HHD

******* and balls don't usually bulge out of my jacket... but then I've never tried Boglioli's trousers ;-)

here it's called mooseknuckle

 

[literasyme]

Originally Posted by HHD

******* and balls don't usually bulge out of my jacket... but then I've never tried Boglioli's trousers ;-)

Live and learn. Live and learn.

Who knew this thread would have legs? As for Boglioli, I suppose their cut just doesn't suit me. I'm neither overly gut-heavy nor muscular at all -- academically hunched and atrophied if anything. I didn't know they worked for Etro. I'm not a huge fan of Etro jackets & suits (like the colours, less impressed with the texture of their fabrics, and the construction often seems a little questionable), but like I said, I'm keen on one or two of their overcoats from the winter collection. I definitely would have to size up to a 44 to wear those over a jacket, though (same with the Boglioli).

The Cucinelli didn't look particularly promising from the photo, but I expected that to be the usual Yoox effect; sadly, the shoulders are just as oddly over-padded as in that picture. Interesting to hear your very positive opinion of their garments, though, Andrew. This sample certainly doesn't live up to expectations.

 

[maomao1980]

Boglioli has quite a distinctive shoulder cut, just slightly extended, very round. I think the right Boglioli to buy are their washed cashmere jackets and other casual blazers. I think better alternatives (Caruso for example) are available if you want more tailored items.

 

[literasyme]

The Sartorio arrived today. What a beautiful coat! Very soft hand (but 100% wool), tons of handwork, excellent fit. That said, the cut's pretty straight through the body, with little waist suppression at all, which surprised me. It's going to the tailor tomorrow, as the sleeves need letting out, but I don't think any other alterations are called for at this point. I'll post photos when I get it back.

In the meantime, however, a quick question for the Neapolitanians around here: the shoulders are clearly spalla camicia (spalle camicie?), and the waterfall effect is quite beautiful (if, I imagine, less refined than on a bespoke jacket) -- far more dramatic than on Borrelli cotton sportcoat I have. At the same time, the sleevehead is very puffy (certainly more so than on other shoulders of this style that I've seen around here), and that I'm a little less happy about. Can I expect that to go away over time as the shoulders settle down?

 

[winston]

Originally Posted by literasyme

In the meantime, however, a quick question for the Neapolitanians around here: the shoulders are clearly spalla camicia (spalle camicie?), and the waterfall effect is quite beautiful (if, I imagine, less refined than on a bespoke jacket) -- far more dramatic than on Borrelli cotton sportcoat I have. At the same time, the sleevehead is very puffy (certainly more so than on other shoulders of this style that I've seen around here), and that I'm a little less happy about. Can I expect that to go away over time as the shoulders settle down?
Does the 'puff' sort of look like roping? It could be a result of the 'closed seam' form of construction, in which case it isn't a true spalla camicia. My Attolini jacket is like this. I like it, it adds a bit of a 'kick-up' to the soft, naturally sloping shoulders.

 

[literasyme]

Ah yes. Just re-read Manton's essay on the Neapolitan shoulder, and then reexamined the coat. I thought there was a ledge, but on closer inspection, it feels like the seam allowance is folded into the sleeve, so the construction is the same as on your Attolini -- con rollino, right? Not quite as dramatic as the roping achieved with wadding. It's growing on me.

 

[mccvi]

Originally Posted by aportnoy

Jeez, I absolutely love my Cucinelli sport coats and outerwear. The fit and fabrics are great.

Totally agree with aport. All the Cucinelli items I have (jackets / pants) are first rate in terms of fabric, fit, and finish.

 

[grimslade]

Got pics of the jacket shoulder?

 

[literasyme]

The coat's at my tailor's right now -- will post pictures when I have it back. Pretty funny conversation when I took it in, though. He wasn't really familiar with the style, and thought the mismatch between armhole and sleeve was sloppy -- even explained to me how he could "fix" it. On the other hand he said he'd seen that sort of thing in old photos, but always assumed that it was a sign of a lack of sartorial knowledge or artisanal skill in olden days...

 

[ThinkDerm]

Originally Posted by literasyme

The coat's at my tailor's right now -- will post pictures when I have it back. Pretty funny conversation when I took it in, though. He wasn't really familiar with the style, and thought the mismatch between armhole and sleeve was sloppy -- even explained to me how he could "fix" it. On the other hand he said he'd seen that sort of thing in old photos, but always assumed that it was a sign of a lack of sartorial knowledge or artisanal skill in olden days...

photos??

 

[GoldenTribe]

Originally Posted by literasyme

Then this Jil Sander coat. Easily the best of the lot, but while Yoox claimed that it was a French size 50, which supposedly translates to a 44 US, it fit like a 40.
Errr, isn't Euro sizing typically US + 10 for tops (and US + 16 for bottoms)? 50 EU isn't 44 US. That's how I've been operating for months and I've never had a problem yet. (Unless "French sizing" is distinct from "European sizing"?)