1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Recommend a scotch in the 80-100 range.

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by GQgeek, Dec 21, 2009.

  1. jfranci3

    jfranci3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    65
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    You gotta find a scotch guide that matches your taste. I match up with Jim Murray's Whisky bible pretty well. If it's a gift for someone, find out what they do and don't like, look through a few guides and find one that matches well with their taste. In lue of the right guide, a good whisky bar or store can help. $$ or age don't equal better scotch. IMO, younger bottlings usually taste better to me than older ones. I also think the std. retail bottlings are better than almost all special bottlings because they can control the quality better.

    I know this thread is old, but for $80-100 range - Lagavulin 16 hands down. I've tried their 12 (which is new), 16, 21 (special bottling), and 31 (special bottling). 12 and 21 were not as good as the 16. The 31 was just awesome.
     
  2. ama

    ama Senior member

    Messages:
    3,823
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    You gotta find a scotch guide that matches your taste. I match up with Jim Murray's Whisky bible pretty well. If it's a gift for someone, find out what they do and don't like, look through a few guides and find one that matches well with their taste. In lue of the right guide, a good whisky bar or store can help. $$ or age don't equal better scotch. IMO, younger bottlings usually taste better to me than older ones. I also think the std. retail bottlings are better than almost all special bottlings because they can control the quality better. I know this thread is old, but for $80-100 range - Lagavulin 16 hands down. I've tried their 12 (which is new), 16, 21 (special bottling), and 31 (special bottling). 12 and 21 were not as good as the 16. The 31 was just awesome.
    I disagree with this post wholeheartedly. The 12 is not new, it is vintage dated and has been coming out as a cask strength since 2002. It is very good. The 21 is best Lagavulin ever, many people say that it is one of the best scotches ever bottled. Thankfully I have a bottle left. [​IMG] There is no 31, its a 30. I recently bought a rather large sample of it and it is very good, but not 21 good. Also, I assume that the bolded statement is implying that distillery bottlings are of a higher quality than independent bottlings. That neglects the fact that independent bottlers have the ability to cherry pick casks and only bottle them when they think they are ready. Distilleries need to put out pretty much the same bottlings every year. There will always be a Highland Park 12 no matter how shitty the ~12 yo stock of HP the distillery has.
     
  3. I<3Bacon

    I<3Bacon Senior member

    Messages:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    There was a stockpile of the 2005 Talisker bottling of the 25yr old found in Brooklyn recently. Seems like a couple gentlemen secured all the cases and then proceeded to unload them on ebay for ~$150ish (at one point, one of them was selling them for $139 shipped/bottle).

    Just out of the OP's price range but the best deal I've seen in a while for a SMS. I can attest to the authenticity of the bottles' contents. [​IMG]

    Diageo also just re-released the Talisker 18yr which has been mysteriously absent for the last 18 months or so... those retailers who received it are selling them for less than $80.
     
  4. taxgenius

    taxgenius Senior member

    Messages:
    4,747
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2007
    There was a stockpile of the 2005 Talisker bottling of the 25yr old found in Brooklyn recently. Seems like a couple gentlemen secured all the cases and then proceeded to unload them on ebay for ~$150ish (at one point, one of them was selling them for $139 shipped/bottle).

    Just out of the OP's price range but the best deal I've seen in a while for a SMS. I can attest to the authenticity of the bottles' contents. [​IMG]

    Diageo also just re-released the Talisker 18yr which has been mysteriously absent for the last 18 months or so... those retailers who received it are selling them for less than $80.


    Do you have the eBay link?
     
  5. SwB411

    SwB411 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Those of you who recommended Rosebank, please tell me where you found this. I looked high and low for a bottle (albeit a few years ago) and had no success.
     
  6. ama

    ama Senior member

    Messages:
    3,823
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Do you have the eBay link?

    http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trk...All-Categories

    Those of you who recommended Rosebank, please tell me where you found this. I looked high and low for a bottle (albeit a few years ago) and had no success.

    You won't find a distillery bottling of it, the distillery closed. Anything you find will be bottled independently. The most common bottling that I have seen in US is the Gordon Mcphail Rosebank 15. Good luck!
     
  7. jfranci3

    jfranci3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    65
    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2009
    I disagree with this post wholeheartedly.

    The 12 is not new, it is vintage dated and has been coming out as a cask strength since 2002. It is very good.
    The 21 is best Lagavulin ever, many people say that it is one of the best scotches ever bottled. Thankfully I have a bottle left. [​IMG]
    There is no 31, its a 30. I recently bought a rather large sample of it and it is very good, but not 21 good.

    Also, I assume that the bolded statement is implying that distillery bottlings are of a higher quality than independent bottlings. That neglects the fact that independent bottlers have the ability to cherry pick casks and only bottle them when they think they are ready. Distilleries need to put out pretty much the same bottlings every year. There will always be a Highland Park 12 no matter how shitty the ~12 yo stock of HP the distillery has.


    I can accept that you disagree with my statement, that's fine. Telling me that I'm wrong on the years is not. They were special bottling (or the label was wrong). In any case, telling me I'm wrong AND telling me my opinion on a particular year makes you a douche.

    Though independent bottlers can theoretically cherry pick barrels, in my (limited) experience they generally haven't been better than the distillery's MTS retail offerings. I don't know if I have bad taste, the bottlers are angling for distinctive barrels, distilleries can smooth out rough edges by mixing many barrels together, or ind. bottlers get the barrels that have deviated from the desired track rather than the prime barrels. I suspect it is all of those reasons and varies by distillery.

    HP point - I think it also needs to be considered that Highland can and does ship most of it's juice off to various blenders (Famous Grouse primarily - according to the internet, which is never wrong). I'm not sure what FG's qc standards are (and they probably have some), but they can probably ship 90%+ of their "deviated" stock off to them (or throw it in port or sherry barrels for a bit and call it special). That takes a huge portion of the 'bad year' risk out HP worries.
     
  8. XeF4

    XeF4 Senior member

    Messages:
    747
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2008
    Oban Distiller's Edition?
    Yup, thats the one.
     
  9. I<3Bacon

    I<3Bacon Senior member

    Messages:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    I can accept that you disagree with my statement, that's fine. Telling me that I'm wrong on the years is not. They were special bottling (or the label was wrong). In any case, telling me I'm wrong AND telling me my opinion on a particular year makes you a douche.

    Though independent bottlers can theoretically cherry pick barrels, in my (limited) experience they generally haven't been better than the distillery's MTS retail offerings. I don't know if I have bad taste, the bottlers are angling for distinctive barrels, distilleries can smooth out rough edges by mixing many barrels together, or ind. bottlers get the barrels that have deviated from the desired track rather than the prime barrels. I suspect it is all of those reasons and varies by distillery.

    HP point - I think it also needs to be considered that Highland can and does ship most of it's juice off to various blenders (Famous Grouse primarily - according to the internet, which is never wrong). I'm not sure what FG's qc standards are (and they probably have some), but they can probably ship 90%+ of their "deviated" stock off to them (or throw it in port or sherry barrels for a bit and call it special). That takes a huge portion of the 'bad year' risk out HP worries.


    ama's right for the most part. The 12yr had a stint in the U.S. and then went away for a while and then recently returned as a 2009 bottling. I've never seen a Diageo bottling (or any bottling for that matter) of a 31yr Lagavulin... and I've seen a lot of Lagavulins (even a couple Murray Mc's, but no where near 31yr).

    Talking about Famous Grouse or any other blenders is straying from the topic at hand... you rather boldly stated that you think quality is somehow better controlled with standard distillery offerings compared to "special" bottlings. Whether you mean limited releases (like Diageo's line of Distiller's Editions) or independent bottlings, making a blanket comment like one will be of higher quality than the next is absurd.

    We have two extremes... something as small as an old style quarter cask will only yield less than 200 bottles. They'll be pretty much consistent throughout the entire run, but whether or not the whisky is quality depends on a thousand different factors.

    On the other end is something like that Glenfiddich 12yr we see every single year forever and ever. It'll be a vatting of countless barrels and it'll be up to Glenfiddich's crusty old noses and tongues to make sure this year's batches are the same as last year's and the year before. But as time has shown us across most of Scotland's distilleries, these standard bottlings evolve over the years (for better or for worse). It's remarkable how consistent the profile stays for how many barrels goes into a run, but it'll never be as consistent as a single barrel. Just because a distillery puts out a standard offering does not mean it's quality by any means (i.e. Macduff or Arran).

    Now, if you're talking about a single specific distillery like Talisker and are telling us that the DE, 175th, 57 North, etc. aren't as good as the standard 10yr or 18yr, it may or may not be true. But there isn't a single logical/rational/explainable reason why.

    And on the topic of independent bottlers, yes, it's a crapshoot whether or not a bottle will be good or not. But I've had uncountable drams from independent bottlers that absolutely killed the distillery's official offerings without a single rough edge to smooth out (best example I can think of is Jura).

    Basically, this longwinded response can be summed up by saying, sure, with indys, you probably don't know what you're getting (just like ANY new whisky you're trying) unless you've had a dram from that barrel already. You more or less know what to expect from the distiller's standard offerings if you're already familiar with them (of course). But saying a standard distiller offering is almost always better than something non-standard/independent from the same distillery is just... lack of experience. The world of whisk(e)y is far too vast to make generalized and blanket comments like these:

    IMO, younger bottlings usually taste better to me than older ones. I also think the std. retail bottlings are better than almost all special bottlings because they can control the quality better.
     
  10. Bohdathone

    Bohdathone Senior member

    Messages:
    116
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Bacon, you and ama really know your scotch whisky
     
  11. I<3Bacon

    I<3Bacon Senior member

    Messages:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    All the alcohol must have killed my brain cells.
     
  12. ErnestoG.

    ErnestoG. Senior member

    Messages:
    422
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    get him 3 handles of famous grouse. they should be around $35 each
     
  13. ama

    ama Senior member

    Messages:
    3,823
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    ama's right for the most part. The 12yr had a stint in the U.S. and then went away for a while and then recently returned as a 2009 bottling. I've never seen a Diageo bottling (or any bottling for that matter) of a 31yr Lagavulin... and I've seen a lot of Lagavulins (even a couple Murray Mc's, but no where near 31yr).

    Talking about Famous Grouse or any other blenders is straying from the topic at hand... you rather boldly stated that you think quality is somehow better controlled with standard distillery offerings compared to "special" bottlings. Whether you mean limited releases (like Diageo's line of Distiller's Editions) or independent bottlings, making a blanket comment like one will be of higher quality than the next is absurd.

    We have two extremes... something as small as an old style quarter cask will only yield less than 200 bottles. They'll be pretty much consistent throughout the entire run, but whether or not the whisky is quality depends on a thousand different factors.

    On the other end is something like that Glenfiddich 12yr we see every single year forever and ever. It'll be a vatting of countless barrels and it'll be up to Glenfiddich's crusty old noses and tongues to make sure this year's batches are the same as last year's and the year before. But as time has shown us across most of Scotland's distilleries, these standard bottlings evolve over the years (for better or for worse). It's remarkable how consistent the profile stays for how many barrels goes into a run, but it'll never be as consistent as a single barrel. Just because a distillery puts out a standard offering does not mean it's quality by any means (i.e. Macduff or Arran).

    Now, if you're talking about a single specific distillery like Talisker and are telling us that the DE, 175th, 57 North, etc. aren't as good as the standard 10yr or 18yr, it may or may not be true. But there isn't a single logical/rational/explainable reason why.

    And on the topic of independent bottlers, yes, it's a crapshoot whether or not a bottle will be good or not. But I've had uncountable drams from independent bottlers that absolutely killed the distillery's official offerings without a single rough edge to smooth out (best example I can think of is Jura).

    Basically, this longwinded response can be summed up by saying, sure, with indys, you probably don't know what you're getting (just like ANY new whisky you're trying) unless you've had a dram from that barrel already. You more or less know what to expect from the distiller's standard offerings if you're already familiar with them (of course). But saying a standard distiller offering is almost always better than something non-standard/independent from the same distillery is just... lack of experience. The world of whisk(e)y is far too vast to make generalized and blanket comments like these:


    +1

    Ignoring indy bottlings because of supposed "rough edges" isn't the wisest course of action if one wants to expand their whisky knowledge and palate.
     
  14. lefty

    lefty Senior member

    Messages:
    9,569
    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2006
    Now I'm torn.

    I stopped by the shop to return the Laphroaig 30 and he said he may be able to get a bottle of the Lagavulin 21 and trade. I was planning to grab three or four bottles in exchange for the Laphroaig, but what say you?

    lefty
     
  15. jhva3

    jhva3 Senior member

    Messages:
    270
    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2010
    I just got a bottle of Springbank 18 from a client and it is killer.
     
  16. I<3Bacon

    I<3Bacon Senior member

    Messages:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Now I'm torn.

    I stopped by the shop to return the Laphroaig 30 and he said he may be able to get a bottle of the Lagavulin 21 and trade. I was planning to grab three or four bottles in exchange for the Laphroaig, but what say you?

    lefty


    Whoever winds up with the Lagavulin will have gotten the better end of the deal (slightly). Whether it be for drinking or collecting, the Lagavulin will be your better bet (while I didn't love the Laphroaig 30yr, I thought it was one of the most interesting and difficult to pick apart while drinking).
     
  17. ama

    ama Senior member

    Messages:
    3,823
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2008
    Now I'm torn.

    I stopped by the shop to return the Laphroaig 30 and he said he may be able to get a bottle of the Lagavulin 21 and trade. I was planning to grab three or four bottles in exchange for the Laphroaig, but what say you?

    lefty


    I say get the Lagavulin 21 and don't think twice about it. I am a big fan of the Laphroaig 30, but I'd take the Laga 21 anytime over it and virtually any other scotch on the market.
     
  18. AlarmGuy79

    AlarmGuy79 Active Member

    Messages:
    36
    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Location:
    South Florida
     
  19. I<3Bacon

    I<3Bacon Senior member

    Messages:
    1,847
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    If I were to purchase a bottle from the ebay link, how would I know if these bottles were legit? Legit labels and bottles etc.?

    Sounds like an excellent deal and wouldn't mind picking up a bottle or two to enjoy and one to collect.


    The deal isn't as good now... best I see at the moment is $149 shipped, which still beats the $185 I can get the 2008 bottling for.

    If they are NOT legit, they faithfully reproduced the contents of the bottle ([​IMG]) as well as the individually numbered bottle labels and boxes. The ones I received also had the box sleeves.

    Most counterfeiters tend to go for ancient bottlings that are harder to vouch for (like old 1970's Ardbegs or vintage 50's/60's Taliskers and the like), are worth a hell of a lot more than $150 if they were real, and have far simpler labels. Also, for whatever reason, the majority of the counterfeits seem to be coming out of Italy.
     
  20. MrNick

    MrNick Senior member

    Messages:
    100
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2009
    Location:
    Orlando, Fl
    Macallans has a holiday box for $100 with one bottle of 12 year and one of 18 year. I hope to find this under my tree.

    This.
     

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by