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Rant: Modern Burberry is Crap

Rob H

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This has been a most interesting insight, thank you to all of the participants. I’ve had to look up what some of the American terminology means but I get the broad idea. Is this forum always so dreadful?
 

JustPullHarder

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This has been a most interesting insight, thank you to all of the participants. I’ve had to look up what some of the American terminology means but I get the broad idea. Is this forum always so dreadful?
Probably worse tbh
 

Leiker

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Entertaining and educational thread for me. It's nice to see argument/debate conducted in a civil manner.
 

Nobilis Animus

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Isn't that the point though? People care about what others think of them. Especially true for kids. And kids see that people who are racist, classist, and homophobic have traditionally worn and generally continue to wear what the laymen would identify as CM.

There's always going to be exceptions, but largely speaking if young folks wear CM pieces it's usually:
  1. Just a piece or two in an outfit that's otherwise more contemporary.
  2. Worn in a very different spirit.

I think people without any style care what others think of them. But more to the point, I find it interesting that you draw such a direct line from clothing choices to politics.

Let's take classist - which to me is hardly in the same league as racist and homophobic, since there are valid reasons for disliking the class pretentiousness and snobbery of some. The better-dressed parts of society nowadays tend to also be the most highly-educated, in part because professions still require a certain level of dress - if only occasionally. On their off-time they're also more likely to enjoy things like classical music, literature, etc. They're also statistically more likely to be against the type of politics you describe, and much more socially liberal.

This whole idea is a false dichotomy, because it is only on websites that classic clothing is some kind of stationary and unchanging thing. People need not wear three-piece suits with boutonniere, cufflink, and tie in order to be wearing and appreciating classic clothing. If they are wearing tailored overcoats with chunky sweaters and sneakers, that's fine by me. The point is that I've only ever received appreciation from younger people for wearing nicer clothes - it's the cranky old guys in their 40s and up who don't understand it.
 

Nobilis Animus

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I suppose I don't know what youth fashion means outside of what happens on the internet, as a lot of youth fashion nowadays is online through sites such as Instagram, TikTok, and Depop. Or sites like Grailed, to the degree that a segment of GenZ is on Grailed. I don't think this sort of regional style discussion is meaningful anymore (also, are you actually hanging out with GenZers? Aren't you like in your 30s?)

I suppose if you define CM as "shirts, overcoats, and boots," then maybe GenZ is into CM because they wear those things. But I would not call CM as being shirts, overcoats and boots, but rather very specific iterations of those things. A Saint Laurent overcoat is not CM; a Ben Silver overcoat is CM.

I think fundamentally, young people are interested in what's cool, and they have been since the 1960s. CM is just not cool. It requires a pop-cultural moment to make it cool -- a certain TV show or movie, certain designers, or musicians. When I think about the "cool moments" in CM post-war, I think of designers like Armani and RL. Or I think of the most recent obsession with Mad Men (now long passed).

CM guys love complaining about coolness. Many have formed an identity around being grouchy cranks. By definition, complaining about what's cool is not cool. It may be that CM will one day have its day in the sun, but it will not be because of this very niche online culture around classic men's style. It will require a pop-cultural moment.

Who said I was in my 30s? I hope I'm not aging that badly.

Regional discussion does come into play, because of the differences in culture and societies within a city. We can broadly point to major trends across the USA, let's say, but how does that pan out in reality? Even with access to information about what's currently cool, whole swathes of the nation will still be at least a few years behind - sometimes even a decade. I understand it took until near 2020 before the Ugg boot/Lulu phase died out mostly.

In major cities it doesn't even matter what the vast majority of people are wearing, because everything is so sectionalised. If you live in one particular area CM would make you look like a fool (or a target), and if in another you'd be ridiculous in streetwear and hiphop clothes.

I don't agree that people change things on the basis of pop-culture. On the basis of what is cool, certainly. But things like GenZ and Millennials arguing over side-parts is an internet joke, not major fashion news. Most people are much more predictable than they'd like to believe, and what drives them to imitate fashion choices is the same as it always has been: status, culture, and personal social identity. Some few have a lifestyle and creativity, but those types generally don't follow trends anyway.
 

Nobilis Animus

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Can we just all agree that none of us should really care what Gen Z is wearing because Bruce Boyer is right:

“To me, the height of idiocy is for a father to try to dress like his son. It shows the father doesn’t know himself, and his son won’t respect him for it.”

Some of us aren't old enough to be fathers for most of Gen Z.

The irony is that the people who should apparently be ditching classical clothing because of politics are actually the most open to it, while the ones with political insecurities tend to be the older generations.

They're just not open to the obsession with fake rules and fossilised nonsense that gets associated with it, which is not synonymous with classical style at all.
 

Nobilis Animus

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By all accounts, Gen Z should be repudiating everything classic, because of its 'political connotations.'

Instead, we get this:





All of which are hugely popular, once you get past the streetwear crowd - proving once more that not only is Gen Z more than capable of enjoying fashion without political smearings, but that the grouchy bloggers who think classic style consists of 'What-We-Wore circa 1967' are hilariously out of touch.
 

dieworkwear

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By all accounts, Gen Z should be repudiating everything classic, because of its 'political connotations.'

Instead, we get this:





All of which are hugely popular, once you get past the streetwear crowd - proving once more that not only is Gen Z more than capable of enjoying fashion without political smearings, but that the grouchy bloggers who think classic style consists of 'What-We-Wore circa 1967' are hilariously out of touch.

Yes, I agree. The Regency period is a major fashion influence right now.
 

bicycleradical

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You jest, but this was actually a common motif in many ancient cultures.

From the Isle of Delos on the Aegean:

View attachment 1566153

View attachment 1566154


They were associated with Hermes and other gods, and both warded off evil and were a sign of good fortune.

Aa friend of mine came back from Indonesia a few years ago and brought back souvenirs for their friends. These consisted of bottle openers with the handle being in the shape of a penis.
 

Andy57

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Yes, I agree. The Regency period is a major fashion influence right now.
Am I the only one looking at the Duke of Hastings character on Bridgerton and thinking I could totally wear that?
 

Nobilis Animus

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Aa friend of mine came back from Indonesia a few years ago and brought back souvenirs for their friends. These consisted of bottle openers with the handle being in the shape of a penis.

Clearly they have not lost their sense of manliness in Indonesia. What we need is a resurgence of uber-manly implements:

main-qimg-cc5e51aaf2393c943f53b0b4bb948dfe.jpg


Just so we don't become gay, you see.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
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Am I the only one looking at the Duke of Hastings character on Bridgerton and thinking I could totally wear that?

Unfortunately, I haven't seen the show, but looking up photos, he does look cool.

I think I would wear that to a StyleForum meet-up and complain how people in suits are dressed too casually.
 

Nobilis Animus

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The show is an awful, ahistorical fantasy. But the clothes are cool, and that's probably half the appeal.
 

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