Yeah, it sucks big time to have to slag ass for super long just to warm ones shoulders up. Still, it beats the alternative b/c a busted shoulder girdle is going to be a total bitch. At least if you're hurting it's better to err on the side of caution imo. "Funny thing happens with years of chasing money and foes, see the only thing worse than getting old is NOT getting old" - old Jay Z Yea I will have to throw this stuff in. I am finding myself needing more time to get fully revved up anyway so combined w/my significantly shorter workouts now it could all somewhat work out.