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Random health and exercise thoughts

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by Eason, Dec 20, 2009.

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  1. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    Ugh turns out the ninja ultima doesn't have compatible cups larger than 16 oz... great. i was going to buy a 24oz one but it turns out it's not compatible. I don't get it. Why make all these cups etc and not make them compatible. It's so stupid. I'm not going to buy a smaller weaker unit to use the cups, though it looks like I could have done that all along since the nutri-ninja can use the 24 oz ones and it's the weaker model.

    Lol. I hate when companies make products that are so similar but they purposely make them incompatible.
     
  2. conceptionist

    conceptionist Senior member

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    Please provide me with studies that say that carbs and fat elevate muscle protein synthesis or lessen muscle protein breakdown.

    It is easier to build muscle on a caloric surplus since the extra energy makes it easier to train hard and get progression in the gym. That said, the extra calories themselves from fat and carbs do not build more muscle given that the protein intake is met.

    Quote:
    Background:

    The anabolic response of skeletal muscle to essential amino acids (EAAs) is dose dependent, maximal at modest doses, and short lived, even with continued EAA availability, a phenomenon termed “muscle-full.” However, the effect of EAA ingestion profile on muscle metabolism remains undefined.

    Objective:

    We determined the effect of Bolus vs. Spread EAA feeding in young men and hypothesized that muscle-full is regulated by a dose-, not delivery profile–, dependent mechanism.

    Methods:

    We provided 16 young healthy men with 15 g mixed-EAA, either as a single dose (“Bolus” n = 8) or in 4 fractions at 45-min intervals (“Spread” n = 8). Plasma insulin and EAA concentrations were assayed by ELISA and ion-exchange chromatography, respectively. Limb blood flow by was determined by Doppler ultrasound, muscle microvascular flow by Sonovue (Bracco) contrast-enhanced ultrasound, and phosphorylation of mammalian target of rapamycin complex 1 substrates by immunoblotting. Intermittent muscle biopsies were taken to quantify myofibrillar-bound 13C6-phenylalanine to determine muscle protein synthesis (MPS).

    Results:

    Bolus feeding achieved rapid insulinemia (13.6 μIU ⋅ mL−1, 25 min after commencement of feeding), aminoacidemia (∼2500 μM at 45 min), and capillary recruitment (+45% at 45 min), whereas Spread feeding achieved attenuated insulin responses, gradual low-amplitude aminoacidemia (peak: ∼1500 μM at 135 min), and no detectable capillary recruitment (all P < 0.01 vs. Bolus). Despite these differences, identical anabolic responses were observed; fasting fractional synthetic rates of 0.054% ⋅ h−1 (Bolus) and 0.066% ⋅ h−1 (Spread) increased to 0.095% and 0.104% ⋅ h−1 (no difference in increment or final values between regimens). With both Spread and Bolus feeding strategies, a latency of at least 90 min was observed before an upswing in MPS was evident. Similarly with both feeding strategies, MPS returned to fasting rates by 180 min despite elevated circulating EAAs.

    Conclusion:

    These data do not support EAA delivery profile as an important determinant of anabolism in young men at rest, nor rapid aminoacidemia/leucinemia as being a key factor in maximizing MPS.
    A Dose- rather than Delivery Profile–Dependent Mechanism Regulates the “Muscle-Full” Effect in Response to Oral Essential Amino Acid Intake in Young Men J. Nutr. December 10, 2014.

    http://jn.nutrition.org/content/earl....full.pdf+html
    __________________

    Quote:
    after a short, latent period of about half an hour, muscle protein synthesis is initially rapidly stimulated but then there appears to be a switch off – a tachyphylaxis – in response to amino acids), which results in the synthetic rate falling. It must also, presumably, result in diversion of amino acids away to catabolism in the liver, by ureagenesis and gluconeogenesis. This ‘muscle-full’ behaviour, together with the inability to stimulate muscle amino acid synthesis continuously by pouring in endogenous amino acids, explains why it is impossible to increase muscle size simply by eating (although the burden of weight carried by obese individuals does help to stimulate muscle hypertrophy!).
    Experimental Physiology, 90, 427-436. July 1 2005.

    This includes all forms of protein, not only EAA's.

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/5/1080.long
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  3. mrchariybrown

    mrchariybrown Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    Maybe not directly, but you just said it yourself, eating more will increase progression in the gym, thus building more muscle faster.

    Is there a threshold where more calories won't equate to more energy to be able to train harder and progress faster? Yes, course.

    Is 25 pounds of weight (fat+fluid+muscle_ gained in 2 years decent? Yes! But don't kid yourself thinking that you couldn't have added more muscle mass if you ate more and trained harder. You seem to try to adopt this pseudo-lean gains approach to gaining mass. Putting on a little fat but also a little bit of muscle, instead of gaining more of each and then just shedding the fat afterwards.



    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Coldsnap

    Coldsnap Senior member

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    I agree with Mike. I'm such a sad sap of shitty genetics and being a general pansy, why bother stacking the deck against myself when it comes to putting on muscles. I've used is protocol for about a year 1/2 and it's simple and it works.

    I'm starting a linear progression today after doing high volume for awihle. Feeling good because last week I squatted without a belt what I did at the end of my last LP.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
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  5. conceptionist

    conceptionist Senior member

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    Oh yeah, I know that I could've gained my 25 pounds faster. As I wrote in my progress post I deliberately stayed on maintenance from june to december 2013. I could've bulked those months but chose not to for various reasons.

    The study I posted says one thing and Mike says another thing. There are many conflicting studies. I have read some of Mikes stuff and I think some of the things he recommends are questionable.

    Also, the whole study I just posted says exacty that you will not gain more muscle if you eat more calories, when your protein requirements are already met. So I would perhaps not have gained more muscle by eating more. More weight overall sure, but not more muscle for certain.

    This is not really relevant to the discussion, but I do know that I could not have trained any harder last year.

    Edit: I admit there is some chance I could've gained more muscle if I simply ate more. "First gainers" and those who are naturally skinny (and have never been fat before) are said to benefit from just eating more. Everyone else is not believed to benefit from it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  6. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    For me it was more of a function of having to be extremely careful in upping weights than it was a worry of gaining too much fat too fast.

    This threads impact on me has largely been positive. I've never weighed 175 before and you guys pushing plus my cousins prodding has made me try to see if I can get up to 185 in the next bit. This is all new territory for me so I really appreciate the help I've had from all of you guys.

    It's kind of hilarious going from barely fitting into a small in college as a 140lb bike racer to pushing 175lbs...

    @mrchariybrown , I'm going to need some clothing recs from you and others. I'm probably going to ditch the majority of my now ill fitting CM wardrobe and look to do things a little more CM casual, but with more of an SWD flair. I can wear pretty much whatever I want for the first two years of med school and I'm going to see how far I can push the weights within reason during that time.
     
  7. Landscape

    Landscape Senior member

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    Conceptionist - Admittedly I am no expert on this subject. However, I do know a lot of actual experts on the subjects IRL and I've read a fair bit myself. When it comes to nutrition I've mainly read stuff by Alan Aragon (can't find the book right now or I would've quoted you stuff from it, "Girth Control" is great if you want a scientific approach to your diet), and Danish studies. But concerning your studies: I don't really see the relevance of the first study you linked, it just discusses the effect of EAA bolus vs. spread. The second one also doesn't look at if gained weight is muscle or fat. Furthermore there are studies showing you can recomp your body by changing your diet. Also steroids will lead to vastly increased size of muscles despite no training (but that's probably not relevant here).

    Also, the thing about eating above maintenance isn't just that it allows you to train harder - it also allows you to move more weight thereby gaining more muscle.
     
  8. conceptionist

    conceptionist Senior member

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    I admit that I am no expert on the subject either. I realize I might come off as too convinced at times though.

    I don't think any studies should be taken as "the truth". You just said that gaining muscle at maintenance is ineffective and I provided this study as a counter argument. We can go on and on, I just wanted to show that there is evidence that you cannot take any further dietary actions for getting more muscles when you eat enough protein, since bulking is often believed to be the only way to gains and ridethecliche asked about gains at maintenance.

    The first study shows that you can't stimulate MPS more through your diet when MPS is already fully elevated - no further gains by simply eating more when protein requirements are met.

    Also, I didn't use the study to say that lean gains is superior or to legitimize my pretty slow weight gain. I just used it to show the studies results.
     
  9. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    Yeah, I've never really understood how recomps work other than you keep doing whatever you're doing while pushing nutrients around periworkout window and keeping protein relatively high i.e. well over maintenance. It's not something I'm really interested in trying right this second, but I might try pushing a recomp over a cut just so I can lean out a bit without dropping weight too quickly. That should allow me to start 'leaning' earlier without forcing myself to hold a weight for too long because I'm essentially trying to hold onto weight for the entire duration of the process.

    I'm honestly not too far off from where conceptionist is right now body fat wise, probably a little leaner. I don't know here my calipers are but I'd like to check. I used to check this stuff every 2-3 weeks to keep track of progress when trying to gain or lean out.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2015
  10. Diesel0022

    Diesel0022 Active Member

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    Sup

    MPS brah checking in
     
  11. Eason

    Eason Senior member

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    Hmm reckon you're about 2-3% mate
     
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  12. Transcendental

    Transcendental Senior member

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    Sorry about not seeing your reply. It's subtle, but the motion and variance in your feet works its way upstream. Start with trying to keep your feet still. It's not the heels.
     
  13. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    That's bullshit!

    I'm FAT FREE, LIKE THE FUCKING MILK I DRINK BRO!
     
  14. mrchariybrown

    mrchariybrown Senior member Affiliate Vendor

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    4 people like this.
  15. fuji

    fuji Senior member

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    Quite a strange article considering no one actually lifts in england.
     
  16. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    From a sociological perspective, the author (if he isn't totally full of shit) says some interesting stuff about former mining towns etc where this gained popularity.
     
  17. Cool The Kid

    Cool The Kid Senior member

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    I think it was a great article. Lifting for most folks is largely about vanity, and that's OK. Humans like attention and admiration. I enjoy powerlifting and admire strong powerlifters, but I think Rippletits has set a lot of people back with his hyper-aversion to vanity and body composition. Lot of times people do SS and buy into that anti-aesthetic dogma, and then wind up stepping back, accepting their vanity and breating a sigh of relief.

    There is def a "reclaim your manhood" movement afoot... this shit ties back in with the whole facial hair revival and all the other silly shit like microbreweries, beekeeping, yadda yadda. I think overall it's a good thing... its important to get off the computer and do/make things.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. JayJay

    JayJay Senior member

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    Cliff notes, plz. Article much too long to read.
     
  19. hendrix

    hendrix Senior member

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    I've not been to England but a good friend of mine did a year in Manchester and he said that most of the dudes over there were way bigger than here (New Zealand). Which is saying something because over here rugby is our national pastime and we have quite a sport-intensive culture.

    I have met a few brits who seem to be in that Geordie Shore kinda culture.

    It's also interesting that rugby league is gaining more traction over than than union. My union-purist mind tells me that league is much more bogan-friendly than union.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2015

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