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Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by Eason, Dec 20, 2009.
no fucking way, believe you me. It was amazingly difficult to start this hobby, athough one would think living in the capital there'd be OL clubs everywhere. unfortunately not so.
it's a dying sport here as well.
also, a frontside 180 jerk is where it's at:
e. oh yeah, just noticed, super awesome jerk recovery there.
This is crazy arrogant considering anyone can simply state they train to compete and weekly full load deadlift grip training is essential to their progress. The problem is your narrow view of training, progress, and purpose. You've taken your goal of a strapped deadlift (with an "as soon as possible" caveat) and applied it universally. The deeply arrogant part of it is when you insist that everyone who doesn't share your goal is "selling themselves short." That is the view of a child, argued for in a childlike rambling mess.
Regarding straps - and honestly just about every type of supportive gear - briefs, squat suits, bench, sling shots, belts, wraps, etc:
There is a time to use them. And a time not.
As a raw squatter I will use briefs or a squat suit to help my nervous system get used to heavier loads. "Creeping up" on some heavier weight. It's necessary to build confidence that you're not going to get crushed by an 800 lb squat and a squat suit helps with that and teaches my nervous system to handle heavier weights. I'll hop in a slingshot or a bench shirt every now and then for the same reason.
At times straps are most definitely warranted in deadlift training, remember your hands are the connective point for most of your lifts. If you beat them to hell and back and it minimizes the effects of your training for the sake of being "straps are for pussies" then you're just limiting your potential strength increases. Vice versa if you use them for everything and your grip simply can't handle the weight then chances are you need to back off their usage some. A stronger grip almost always translates to better lifts across the board, not just a deadlift. In terms of competition - you've got to be able to hold what you lift. With my clients and myself I make sure there isn't a doubt that once the hands hit the bar and the bar leaves the platform that I will not let go. If I miss a deadlift it sure won't be because of grip.
This is similar with using a belt, wraps and the many other things I lifted. Use them when it's appropriate. Beltless squatting can be a great way to activate your core and teach your body to support the weight. However, above 80% I'm using a belt because I don't even want to play around with the risk of herniating a disc under maximal loads.
Dogmatic thinking is the reason so many things in life are harder than they need to be. Politics - if they'd just realize that there's a bit of right and wrong on both sides would be better off. Training is the same way.
Do the things that get you results. This applies not just to training, but life as well.
Without being quite so mean, I'd tend to agree with some of the underlying premise here. As I've said a few times throughout this particular discussion, I think that there is a problem with non-competitive lifters defining progress primarily by the amount of weight on the bar. The world is full of shortcuts that will allow you to successfully lift heavier and heavier weights quickly (from something as benign as chalk to something as problematic as anabolic steroids), but using these shortcuts to lift the most weight possible isn't necessarily progress in the truest sense of the word. By using shortcuts we risk becoming dependent on them. That doesn't mean we should NEVER use them, but it does mean we should be aware that we are using a shortcut, and if we are interested in some sense of progress beyond just increasing weight on the bar, it means we should avoid ALWAYS using shortcuts, and spend some time attacking isolated limitations (grip strength, hip mobility, etc.) head on.
LM16- I agree with your above post. Very measured and reasonable. How do you think that your point of view as a very high level competitive lifter and coach translates into both beginning lifters and more experienced amateurs who have no intention of ever competing? My personal reluctance to use various equipment comes from a place where I don't actually care all that much about my "numbers". If I hit a wall with progression, my inclination is to identify what is holding me back, and attack it head on. With my current deadlift, grip strength is definitely an issue. I know I could lift more with straps, but as I'm not competing, there's no pressure to continue imrpoving the rest of the lift faster than my grip strength improves. Again, though, I make a hard distinction between competitive lifters and the rest of us in that regard.
This morning, I was rummaging through my cabinets and came across an old tub(~6 months) of 1MR pre-workout. I had forgotten about it, so I opened it up and realized there were about 2 servings left just sitting at the bottom. I'm pretty stim tolerant, so I dumped both servings into a bottle of water and chugged it down. Worst. Fucking. Mistake. Ever.
Went to the gym and immediately felt off. I was sweating profusely after my first warmup of squats. My heart was racing after my first working set. 315 on the squat felt 50 pounds heavier...and it got worse as my sets went on. Dropped the weight to 225, figuring maybe I'd just do some form work. After 2 sets of that it felt like 315. Then the stomach aches and cramps started. I gave up squatting and figured I'd do lunges instead. Did 1 set with pussy weight and could barely finish. Grabbed my keys and left the gym after a 20 minute workout drenched in sweat. Drove home, puked, shit my brains out, and now I'm laying on the couch typing this.
The dregs of a pre-workout tub...never again.
Woke up at 5 am for no reason. Morning workout at like 90% of my usual working weight. Back to routine. Feelsgoodman. .
first of all, lol at you calling me arrogant and childlike after making four separate responses to my OP that involve nothing more than insults, shit-flinging, and derision. this is the first halfway intelligent thing you've written in response and yet you're clowning on me for being arrogant?
it seems your years of substance abuse have compromised your ability to read and comprehend, so allow me to spell it out for you:
-equipment-assisted lifts are contextually appropriate tools just like any other lift is a contextually appropriate tool
-your goals are going to determine the most appropriate tool
-if your goal is defined upon the fact that you are deciding to limit the tools at your disposal, you are not going to progress as well as someone who isn't doing so
-you seem to think that adding more weight = progress in and of itself which is absolutely untrue. my goal isnt to get a strong strapped deadlift, its to get a strong deadlift. using straps will help me, just as doing grip training will help me when my grip fails. your narrow-minded view of training assumes that weekly deadlift poundage is the ultimate end. my goal is to have X deadlift in a year - obviously, when i strap my deadlifts and how i structure my training is going to be dependent on the timeframe. if your goal is to not have X deadlift in a year, and aren't going to train in such a manner as i am, you are not going to be progressing as well as i am. make sense? you seem to think my weight on the bar progress is mutually exclusive from "your" progress, which is crap. i can be just as conscious as staying injury-free or whatever else you're concerned with without having the runaround mental justification that straps are for phaggots.
how you have taken several pages of shit-flinging and jock-whiffing to fail to understand my original point is far beyond me. the fact that you have the gall to call me ignorant and narrow-minded when you fail to understand my original premise and have misinterpreted the examples i'm using is incredible. please stop.
Fuck you bitch, if you ain't using double overhand on a 600+ using your cum for chalk, you have no business lifting.
got my knuckshoes in the mail today
they are... tight
this is exactly what i was trying to say, thank you. contextual stuff is contextual, not using something for the sake of not using it can hold you back regardless of what dimension one defines their progress on.
Im 181lb at probably 13% BF i would guess. Top abs and ribs between upper chest are visible (strong lack of mid/upper chest development) My idea for this bulk is to go to 190 and see how fat i am, would go all the way to 200 but dont wanna be too fat for the ladies right now. Eating 3600 calories minimum, tracked properly, which should be 500 over maintenance. My eventual goal is 195 ish at 10% or less. Legs are responding fast as usual on my new program, but one of my goals is to get to 15" arms as ive been stuck at just under 14 for ages. Ideally i dont wanna cut until i achieve that, but they respond so slowly i will probably have to.
Have you thought about why they respond slowly? Analyze your training and figure out what has worked and more importantly what hasn't. For instance my bench sucks for my weight class (I compete in the 181's) and so I checked back through my logs and was looking at what I was doing - singles/triples, with chain/band, various board heights, slingshot work, various technical changes, dynamic work etc. So I tossed it all out and decided I was going to start close gripping everything and get my triceps strong which are obviously a weak link. I'm also weak on my floor press so I figured, yup let's do that too. I just started choosing all the things I suck at and that's my approach for the next 12 weeks and hopefully I can get up to doing something respectable for Worlds in November.
Take that same approach for your arms - find out are you just small biceps or triceps (probably both at under 15" to be honest). Have you been doing a specific type of training/loading pattern that obviously hasn't been working? Scrap it and move on to something that is different. My arms blew up using 2 rest pause sets a week and 2 forearm focused movements a week, that's what took me from 16 to 17" arms and then I started adding in offset grips, thicker handles (used fat gripz), and band tension to change the force curve of the movement and give me larger stimulus. And in the last 5 months or so it's taken me up to 17.5" arms. As I said, it's all about finding what you suck at, and making yourself suck less. When you do that, chances are you'll start seeing forward progress.
I've always had a lagging chest, but it's finally starting to catch up. The biggest difference was a couple months ago I decided to re-learn how to bench from scratch and spent two weeks just working on my form. Once I fixed my form, my chest has grown tremendously in a fairly short amount of time. So maybe consider doing that -- working on your form for a bit.
17.5s........soon. If that's without a pump and with sub-10 BF....
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