1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

Random fashion thoughts

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by thekunk07, Aug 1, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. iamacyborg

    iamacyborg Senior member

    Messages:
    1,476
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2013
    I dunno man, you listen to stuff that's underground enough, Shazam and YouTube won't be able to help you out.

    Just tested with this which was a favourite back in my early-mid teens. Only 2 tracks from the album on YT, and Shazam doesn't find anything.
     
  2. shoreman1782

    shoreman1782 Senior member

    Messages:
    8,742
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    DMV
    A lot of this leads to the question of "why do we like what we like?" Because the reason a Styleforum reader (or SZ reader or reddit reader, whatever) buys a Rick Owens tshirt (sub literally any SF/tumblr #grail for RO tshirt) is not necessarily the same reason an average Zara shopper is going to buy a tshirt done in a similar style.
    • Customer A has been down with Rick since '02, lives in a brutalist concrete bunker minimally decorated except for exotic fur rugs, always checks out the new collection, and has stuff on preorder every season.
    • Customer B just showed up at NYU and wants something to distance himself from his previous life in flyover country. He wants something edgy and just signed up for a BoA visa card and ends up with a Rick Owens t from a boutique in the meatpacking district.
    • Customer C is a whale who buys whatever his Barney's SA recommends.
    • Customer D posts in this thread a lot and jumped on a Rick t on myhabit.
    • Customer E shops primarily at the (suburban) mall, has never heard of Rick Owens, but likes the tshirt on the SA at Zara and buys it.

    Is there something inherent in the "good design" of the Rick t that makes everyone want it/makes it worth ripping off? Which of these customers will be put off by an Allsaints/Zara/whatever trickledown? Is Customer E's taste worse than customer A's? Is their interest in the aesthetic casual and therefore worth less?

    I'd be interested to see, especially for high profile but still niche designers, how many customers are conversant in that niche design world and how many are just like "I thought it looked good in the window so I bought it."
     
    15 people like this.
  3. Kid Nickels

    Kid Nickels Senior member

    Messages:
    8,658
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2010
    Location:
    Zulu minus 7
    

    I'm not sure it has changed THAT much… all the stuff on iTunes and YouTube is just all the popular shite, not-even-music "music" so there is still the need to dig and search. Yes occasionally I'm surprised by what I find on YT and there is some cool, obscure stuff, (and I'm exaggerating a bit.. it's not all shite) but people are still the same, and lazy people listen to lazy music and don't put any time into finding it.
     
  4. GraphicNovelty

    GraphicNovelty Senior member

    Messages:
    5,487
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2009
    Location:
    NYC
    wow, such taste, very patrician
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  5. tgaith77

    tgaith77 Senior member

    Messages:
    195
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012


    I'd be more interested in seeing how these customers view each other.

    Do Customers D & E view Customer A as aspirational or try hard? Customer A views everyone else as consumerist sheep? Customer C is entirely oblivious to A, B, D & E?
     
  6. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,355
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    


    Well so far we know only how Customer D views Customer E:

     
    2 people like this.
  7. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Messages:
    33,462
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    Speaking only for myself, I don't wear fast fashion, but I also have no problems with fast fashion versions of designer items. This is fashion. There has never been an original thought.

    Re. ethical practices. If you are not paying $$$, you can nearly be certain that some poor bastard is suffering for your jawns. Of course, that you are paying $$$ is no guarantee that no poor bastard is suffering. So, if you want your shit cheap, that's fine. Just look into the mirror and say "I just don't give a fuck." It's very liberating.
     
  8. OccultaVexillum

    OccultaVexillum Senior member

    Messages:
    6,212
    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2013
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I dunno. This all very serious.

    If you see a Rick piece at full retail for $2,000 and then that same piece is sitting at the end of the season for $400, it doesn't make it any worse.
    If everything I liked could be had for Zara prices I'd be all over it, but Zara/H&M/whatever are seriously, absolutely, not up to the standard of the "real thing". Not to say the real thing is worth what they charge.
     
  9. jet

    jet Senior member

    Messages:
    20,966
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Location:
    socal
    This whole it's ok for them to copy because there's never been an original thought is some mindlessly regurgitated bullshit.
     
  10. washedout

    washedout Senior member

    Messages:
    164
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2014
    This whole it's ok for them to copy because there's never been an original thought is some mindlessly regurgitated bullshit.
     
    15 people like this.
  11. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

    Messages:
    7,667
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    What expensive out of reach designer doesn't rip off other expensive out of reach designers? At the snooty out of reach web store, which designers move unique conceptual products more than the ones that are just iterations of what's popular at the moment, looking over their shoulders? If Robert Geller makes a $100 scoop-necked t-shirt that looks like everyone else's, why is he so different from Zara?


    Does quality and place of manufacture not differ within every brand?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  12. SpooPoker

    SpooPoker Internet Bigtimer and Most Popular Man on Campus Dubiously Honored Affiliate Vendor

    Messages:
    35,879
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2009
    Location:
    LuxeSwap
    

    +100 who's got the contact info!
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. noob in 89

    noob in 89 Senior member

    Messages:
    7,667
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2010
    Who invented spray cheese, and why?
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. futuresailors

    futuresailors Senior member

    Messages:
    626
    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2012
    I don't know, but cheese goo is delicious.
    [​IMG]


    Aesthetically, he's not. But fast-fashion companies are selling an aesthetic-- if you want to look Trend X, stop by Zara/TopShop/H&M and you can. Why do you think "Get the Look" is in so much ad copy? With the designer there's a bit more quality and a lot more mythos involved as a selling point.
     
  15. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

    Messages:
    7,589
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    

    I mean, highly respected designers often rip off things they saw in vintage clothes and call them "replicas," "vintage inspired," or "vintage reproductions." See MMM, Nigel Cabourn, and 99% of the Japanese workwear ready-to-wear lines.

    Tailors do this stuff all the time as well. Copying is how Naples and Hong Kong originally built their tailoring sectors.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
  16. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    8,355
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Shhhh the cult of the author must not be disturbed....
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. Desi

    Desi Senior member

    Messages:
    2,310
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Replace Zara with Topshop/Topman as I think Zara still has a strict employee dress code.
     
  18. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Messages:
    33,462
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2002
    Location:
    Moscow, Idaho
    It extends beyond the obviously retro guys. Rick Owens is an old LA punk dude. The asymmetrical zips that he is known for is his take on a rider jacket, albeit highly stylized. But it's not like that feature, not the funnel neck, is really "new" in the sense of it never having been done before. Not to mention his cartoon sneakers, which are cartoon versions of well known models, but the influence of the many brands of "baller boots", and sneakers from the likes of DBSS, are pretty unmistakeable.

    And I don't know how many of you remember this, but the now revered MA+ was maligned when it first started as a watered down, derivative, version of Carpe Diem, in the usual "argh, they don't make'em like they used to" narrative.

    "There are no new ideas" is not a criticism. It just speaks to the interconnectivity of fashion.
     
    3 people like this.
  19. brad-t

    brad-t Senior member

    Messages:
    18,535
    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    There's a world of difference between what Zara does and what you're describing above, and I'm sure you know that.
     
  20. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

    Messages:
    7,589
    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2011
    

    Are you taking about Fok's examples, or mine as well? I feel like if you're concerned about the ethnics of ripping off someone's design, the examples I gave are even more egregious (esp the Japanese repro brands). At least brands such as Zara are just ripping off a "look," not actual, specific pieces. These guys are sometimes taking a vintage piece and giving it to a manufacturer to reproduce, with no change even in the grading of sizes.

    IMO, the only difference is that Zara takes less risk. As in, they identify what's hot on the market, and jump on a trend -- beating it to death until no more profit can be squeezed from it. But that's kind of inherent in a big business model. You have to sell a million units, so you have to be safe from a design standpoint. The reason why smaller lines are more interesting and innovative has nothing to with their ethics. It just has to do with their business model -- they don't need to sell as many units, so they can afford to be more experimental. In fact, they have to be somewhat experimental, so that they charge a premium.

    Personally, I think the ends justify the means. The process of ripping designers off is what drives forward a lot of innovation in fashion, and IMO makes it much more interesting. On the MC side of the board, I think you see this as well with bespoke tailors or cordwainers. It used to be that a fiddleback waist was a way for bespoke shoemakers to distinguish their shoes as being something different and and special from RTW lines. Now you have fiddleback waists as "add ons" to a lot of RTW lines -- including some that start as low as the $400-500 mark (not cheap, but not expensive when it comes to the kind of footwear we're talking about). I'm convinced that in five or ten years, there will be some other innovation to distinguish handmade shoes from cheaper made ones produced in China and Vietnam (where some of this lower grade fiddleback waist stuff is being produced). That makes the market much more interesting for enthusiasts. Who wants to look at fiddleback waists for 50 years?
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2014
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by